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Gauss rifles


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#41 tynaiden

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 04:10 PM

Woah woah woah people. Calm down. The Mechwarrior clearly stated where the information based came from.

View PostAlfred VonGunn, on 27 May 2012 - 04:30 AM, said:

I started playing BT when it was still called Battledroids before teh first law suit in 1983..
...


There is no need to jump so hastily upon it and attack like wolves when the source of the time stated is contrary to the now common standard.
At any rate, a proper answer clarifying the misinformation is given a few times over so that particular elemental needs to be buried.


On topic:
As mentioned elsewhere above, Huncback may be the lightest option currently available based on what we (the public forums) know. Soon as a viable option opens you will most certainly see it here on the forums though. Mechwarriors are a fun bunch of tweekers so just about any thing that could be dreamed up -will- end up being brought to light.

#42 Metal Fish

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 04:14 PM

THUNDER HAWK THUNDER HAWK THUNDER HAWK THUNDER HAWK

Three gauss rifles AND four medium lasers. ******* awesome.

Too bad it's not in the game...

YET?!

Edited by Metal Fish, 27 May 2012 - 04:22 PM.


#43 Henchman 24

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 04:16 PM

View PostLordDeathStrike, on 27 May 2012 - 02:46 AM, said:

G rifle capacitors explode, the ammo does not. case still keeps it from taking out other things.


This, oh my yes, I was gonna say, grab your average 1 farad cap, charge it up, and put a .22 round into it and see what happens!

POP!

#44 Ranek Blackstone

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 04:23 PM

I can has Gaussilla?

Seriously, if the Anni comes out, I will mount 5 gauss into that thing, and see what happens.

#45 Thomas Hogarth

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 04:26 PM

View Posttynaiden, on 27 May 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

Woah woah woah people. Calm down. The Mechwarrior clearly stated where the information based came from.


I still have Battledroids minis. Gauss rifles did not exist back then. Furthermore, Gauss rifle ammo has never exploded. He is in error.

#46 Ranek Blackstone

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 04:37 PM

A better question is why the weapon explodes despite not having anything explosive in it.

#47 Thomas Hogarth

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 04:41 PM

View PostRanek Blackstone, on 27 May 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

A better question is why the weapon explodes despite not having anything explosive in it.


Balance.

#48 UncleKulikov

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 05:00 PM

View PostAlfred VonGunn, on 27 May 2012 - 02:32 AM, said:

I just hope they move away from teh TT bs and make it so Gauss RIfle ammo DOES NOT EXPLODE... There is no reason that is should since it has no gun powder and no other explosive in it.. A ammo hit to Gauss rifle should just destroy the feed and disable the gun.. nothing else...

Bullshit. There needs to be some disadvantage to the weapon, it already does huge damage at incredible range, and you want it to lose it's one disadvantage? Forget that. This game is all about give and take, taking a gauss means a hit to the gauss causes damage. Now sack up.

#49 CaveMan

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 06:37 PM

View PostRanek Blackstone, on 27 May 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

A better question is why the weapon explodes despite not having anything explosive in it.


Never seen a powerline transformer explode? That's peanuts compared to the amount of energy stored in a Gauss rifle.

#50 Paladin1

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 07:02 PM

View PostAlfred VonGunn, on 27 May 2012 - 02:32 AM, said:

I just hope they move away from teh TT bs and make it so Gauss RIfle ammo DOES NOT EXPLODE... There is no reason that is should since it has no gun powder and no other explosive in it.. A ammo hit to Gauss rifle should just destroy the feed and disable the gun.. nothing else...

I just hope that you buy a ******* clue about TT rules instead of just talking out your ***. Gauss ammo has never exploded in the TT rules, it's the rifle itself that explodes due to the capacitors catastrophically discharging.

#51 Kaanon

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 07:03 PM

The gauss rifle is like the er-ppc in that it's drawbacks are easily overcome by it's strengths. I will be mounting one on my primary mech pending some kind of over-nerfing by the devs.

#52 Paladin1

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 07:06 PM

View PostLordDeathStrike, on 27 May 2012 - 02:28 AM, said:

atlas. the stock current gauss rifle is 10 crits 15 tons. torso mounted only. that disqualifies the cent and the dragons arm mounts, and i believe its more crit space then the hunchbacks shoulder mount can handle.

so for now, the atlas right torso is the only place we can put a G rifle.

The VTR-9K Victor would like to have a word with you about your assumption that GRs cannot be arm mounted.

Also, there's a canon variant of the Hunchback that actually does pack a GR, so it can be done.

View PostAlfred VonGunn, on 27 May 2012 - 03:08 AM, said:


WHich is first came out YEARS ago it was ammo.. didn;t know of teh change.. But that makes no sense either... WHy would teh Gauss RIfle overload and explode but Lasers and PPCs don't?

No, actually it never was the ammo that exploded. I've been playing TT long enough to remember before we had GRs and I know how it has worked all along. You're wrong in this.

#53 tynaiden

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 07:09 PM

View PostThomas Hogarth, on 27 May 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

I still have Battledroids minis. Gauss rifles did not exist back then. Furthermore, Gauss rifle ammo has never exploded. He is in error.


Ah interesting. Thanks for clarification on that topic. That would explain why I could not find any true link between Battledroids and Gauss Rifles after a 15 minute Google run. I was not a witness to the glory of Battletech until shortly after the Fourth Edition box came out.

Still a tad harsh some reactions were. Save it for the targeting reticules I say ;]


View PostCaveMan, on 27 May 2012 - 06:37 PM, said:

Never seen a powerline transformer explode? That's peanuts compared to the amount of energy stored in a Gauss rifle.

I do love watching a pole-pig pop. Two of them within view of my window so I see it rather regularly out here in the country. At least two pops a year.

#54 Scarlett Avignon

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 07:15 PM

A gauss rifle explodes due to the MASSIVE amount of energy stored in it's capacitor. The ammo has never exploded. Ever.

Now, it's arguable that energy weapons should have the same effect, but I think you'll find the logic is that a gauss rifle capacitor holds far more energy that a laser's. PPCs would probably fall under this same effect.

As a previous post mentioned, though, it really came down to a matter of game balance and coolness. A real fusion reactor would never explode either, but it looks cool, so guess what? In the BT universe, it happens.

#55 Paladin1

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 07:18 PM

View PostAlfred VonGunn, on 27 May 2012 - 04:30 AM, said:


I started playing BT when it was still called Battledroids before teh first law suit in 1983.. You expect a link to stuff prior to the internet:). We did everything in books then...



Yeah, I know all about those books. Now, what book and page number are you referring too when you say that originally, FASA had the GR ammo explosive? Please, do tell. B)

I'll give you a hint, GRs didn't show up until the 2750 TRO, which was published in 1989. I'm looking at my 1st Edition copy of the 2750 TRO, page 7 to be precise, where the GR was first detailed and stat'd out, and not only does the ammo not explode, but the GR itself doesn't explode. That bit about the GR itself was added later to balance the weapon but GR ammo has NEVER exploded.

Oh, just so you know, here's exactly what pg. 7 says about the Gauss Rifle

Quote

The Gauss Rifle uses a series of magnets to propel the shell through the barrel toward the target. Though the weapon requires a great deal of power to operate, it generates very little heat and can accelerate a projectile to muzzle velocities twice that of conventional weapon systems.


That's ALL that was said about the GR when it was first introduced. Now, what were you saying about Battledroids?

#56 Kartr

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 08:03 PM

View PostChristopher Dayson, on 27 May 2012 - 05:01 AM, said:


It's /ALREADY/ a logistical nightmare.

For example: Your force is defending a planet. That planet may not even have the capability to make ammunition or replacement weapons for your mech's. Therefor you've got to import them from another planet that is /weeks/ away, minimum, as they're not going to use a command circuit for ammo distribution.

All the more reason to have your military using a standardized set of equipment, at least missile and ballistic weapons. That way when you're "importing" ammo from another planet you know for certain that it will work with the guns your military is using.

View PostChristopher Dayson, on 27 May 2012 - 05:01 AM, said:

This lack of real supply chain, lack of instant communication with the people who make the decisions, and lack of ability to even commandeer supplies on many battlefields means that no matter how you try to standardize it just won't work.

Actually they do have a supply chain, its just very long and slow. Having a long slow supply chain doesn't make it impossible to standardize, but it does make it very important to. Also there is no reason why the entire Inner Sphere shouldn't be using the exact same calibers of weapons and types of shells. The Star League should've standardized their weapons (if they didn't then the Camerons were idiots) and since the Houses tended to copy or get Star League hand-me-downs the IS should've had a standardized set of weapons calibers. It should've been much like NATO nations and how they all use 5.56mm, 7.62mm, etc.

View PostChristopher Dayson, on 27 May 2012 - 05:01 AM, said:

Take into account also that not every Successor State can even produce every mech. Let alone the type of weapon that is in use for that mech. Standardization simply cannot exist because of the technological aspects of interstellar travel and the vagaries of mech construction.

'Mech standardization isn't important as long as the weapons are standardized, which would be "relatively" simple. It doesn't matter if you're shipping ammo to a unit equipped with Hunchbacks or Atlas's if the AC/20's use the exact same shell. Nor would it be difficult to, when you order a new weapon developed specify a caliber and cartridge size. When you order a new 'Mech designed order the designers to use standard weapons.

It actually makes more sense to have standardized weapons when ordering new 'Mech designs because then the engineering team knows what kind of recoil, heat, climb, etc., to expect and can design the 'Mech to take those things into account.

It makes more sense to have weapons standardized so that your factories can produce the same types of shell's, your transports can load a large amount of a few different types of shells, your ground crews only have a couple different types to keep track of, and your pilots/gunners only have a few different weapon characteristics to remember.

View PostChristopher Dayson, on 27 May 2012 - 05:01 AM, said:

Given the wide range of weights available for mech's alone standardization simply isn't an option, and this isn't even counting things like conventional forces like infantry, tanks, aerospace fighters, vtol's, etc.

How does this effect the standardization of weapons? You specify weights, dimensions, calibers and cartridge sizes when you order a new design. Weights and dimensions are already standardized across the IS (if you suspend disbelief that Tonnage and Critical Space are actually mass and volume which doesn't realistically make sense), and the only thing that keeps calibers and cartridge sizes from being standardized the way it should be is a few lines of annoying fluff.

View PostChristopher Dayson, on 27 May 2012 - 05:01 AM, said:

The PPC in a Panther isn't the same PPC in an Awesome. They might share stats, but they have different connection sequences, mounting options, etc. Then add in Dropship weapons, varying autocannon ammunitions etc.

Except I can take a salvaged PPC from a Panther and put it in my Awesome to replace the one that got destroyed in the last fight. Nothing says that a Panther's PPC must have different connectors, mounts, feed lines etc. In fact it doesn't make sense for them to be different weapons, nothing what so ever.

View PostChristopher Dayson, on 27 May 2012 - 05:01 AM, said:

Standardization simply does not exist in the BattleTech universe, not on the scale that it exists in modern day militaries. The closest to do /that/ are the Clans with their omnimechs.

You're right standardization doesn't exist in the IS the way it does in the real world. It doesn't make any sense, but then one musn't expect authors to make logistically sound decisions when writing fiction. Could the same level of standardization exist, yes easily, does it, no.

Clan tech is probably the most perfectly standardized tech in the universe since the only way for it to work is to have all control linkages and connection points be identical across every Clan weapon, regardless of type(laser, ballistic, missile) and model(2/4/5/6/10/15/20).

Ok the rest of you can go back to the discussion of what 'Mech is the fastest way to mounting a Gauss Rifle.

#57 Rot Wulf

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 08:25 PM

View PostAlfred VonGunn, on 27 May 2012 - 02:32 AM, said:

I just hope they move away from teh TT bs and make it so Gauss RIfle ammo DOES NOT EXPLODE... There is no reason that is should since it has no gun powder and no other explosive in it.. A ammo hit to Gauss rifle should just destroy the feed and disable the gun.. nothing else...


The advanced rules for the Guass rifle is that the ammo does not explode, but the rifle does. That is if the crit table hits the ammo, the ammo in that bay is out of commission but if the the crit table comes up for the rifle, then the rifle's capacitors explode violently. Just an FYI.

#58 LordDeathStrike

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 08:32 PM

View PostFranklen Avignon, on 27 May 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

A gauss rifle explodes due to the MASSIVE amount of energy stored in it's capacitor. The ammo has never exploded. Ever.

Now, it's arguable that energy weapons should have the same effect, but I think you'll find the logic is that a gauss rifle capacitor holds far more energy that a laser's. PPCs would probably fall under this same effect.

As a previous post mentioned, though, it really came down to a matter of game balance and coolness. A real fusion reactor would never explode either, but it looks cool, so guess what? In the BT universe, it happens.

a fusion IMPLOSION is highly likely, and the aftermath of an IMPLOSION looks alot like and EXPLOSION except all the radiation and heat is sucked in instead of expelled out, afterwards a dust cloud mushroom forms as the air rushes to fill the void left by the IMPLOSION.

glad to clear that up, physics class 100% grade finally comes in handy.

#59 Major Bill Curtis

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 08:44 PM

View PostFranklen Avignon, on 27 May 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

A gauss rifle explodes due to the MASSIVE amount of energy stored in it's capacitor. The ammo has never exploded. Ever.

Now, it's arguable that energy weapons should have the same effect, but I think you'll find the logic is that a gauss rifle capacitor holds far more energy that a laser's. PPCs would probably fall under this same effect.

As a previous post mentioned, though, it really came down to a matter of game balance and coolness. A real fusion reactor would never explode either, but it looks cool, so guess what? In the BT universe, it happens.


For the record (everybody), energy weapons certainly will explode in TT, as per Tactical Operations, page 75, "Expanded Critical Hits," as a result of "emitter damage" due to a critical hit. It is not as likely as for a Gauss Rifle, but then again, there are a lot more lasers than GRs out there, so . . .

Folks often seem to forget that Battletech rules are scaled for complexity, and even if most people haven't played with rules for exploding energy weapons, the rules are there nonetheless.

Cheers

#60 Phades

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 08:49 PM

View PostAlfred VonGunn, on 27 May 2012 - 02:32 AM, said:

I just hope they move away from teh TT bs and make it so Gauss RIfle ammo DOES NOT EXPLODE... There is no reason that is should since it has no gun powder and no other explosive in it.. A ammo hit to Gauss rifle should just destroy the feed and disable the gun.. nothing else...

The rifle can give feedback (20 pts worth), the ammo didn't explode the last time i checked.





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