15 replies to this topic

[Kellea]

I really don't want to add any more to the broad discussion of ECM being too strong because everything has been said (being a bubble, the bubble being really big, making whole weapon systems completely useless, weighing only 1.5 tons, being available for many models so that whole teams vanish under ecm cover, etc.) - just not by everybody.

Obviously no changes on ECM are planned. But there are ways to counter it, TAG being one of them. Unfortunately TAG is - expecially in comparison to ECM - nothing more than a bad joke imho. A system that weighs a ton and only works if you keep it active on the target for the whole time? Really? Some guys already tape down a key on their keyboard just to keep TAG active all the time because this is the only way it makes some kind of sense. This really could not be intended by the developers.

Here are two simple suggestions to make TAG a more attractive (and thus more common) system to counter ECM (which would effectively reduce the impact of ECM on the game as well yb the way):

- Reduce the weight to 0.5 tons.
- Prolong the duration of TAG, e.g. to the time a flight of LRM would need to travel maybe 500 m (it's pretty depressing if some light mech offers one precious ton and tags an enemy mech, you shoot your LRM and while it's in midair the target vanishes again because the light mech had to run being picked apart by ECM and counter ECM...).

Edited by Kellea, 25 January 2013 - 11:46 AM.

[Codejack]

Nah, just have a 50% chance that ECM explodes at the beginning of the match, killing the mech carrying it and damaging nearby allies.

[Dudeman3k]

lol, they would need to do more than that for TAG to be a viable "counter" to ECM. They would need to to remove it taking an energy slot. They will also need to add a longer linger time once laser loses target to 2 - 2.5 - 3 seconds (trying to keep a laser on a 150kph anything is not very effective). So far the only thing TAG is useful for is keeping a lock on a 48kph D-DC, or the 58kph goons around his bubble, and taking away one energy weapon you could have had.

TAG is no counter, and like stated by the DEV's themselves. "the only counter to ECM is ECM"....... so two wrongs to these jokers seem to make a right after all! hmmm.

Edited by Dudeman3k, 25 January 2013 - 11:51 AM.

[Bguk]

Kellea, on 25 January 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

I really don't want to add any more to the broad discussion of ECM being too strong because everything has been said...- just not by everybody.

This makes me want to read the new and exciting take you will be presenting in regards to ECM.

[Revorn]

I generaly dont like the idea of TAG at all.

LRM should be an indirect longrange Weapon, without the need of using an laserlike Weapon to even get a Lock at all. If i wanted to play Lasers, i would choose an Hunchback with Lasers.. Imho.

[Orzorn]

Kellea, on 25 January 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

Obviously no changes on ECM are planned.

Garth himself said they are. They're just trying to figure out what to change.

Here's the quote, by the way:
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1750287

Quote

This'll be my last post on the subject, as Paul mentioned what we're doing in regards to speaking to the changes.

ECM being used on all ECM-able Mechs does show that it is overly powerful. The reason no changes have been made is it takes time to figure out what, exactly, is making that the reason. Is it the lock prevention? The 'cloak'? The range it works at? The weight? Crit space? Variants that use it? That it makes LRMs incapable of lock? SSRMs?

So while total numbers used isn't an indicator it's fine, it does mean people won't just go to ECM because it makes you instantly win. In fact, many builds aren't affected by ECM at all (my Cicada, in particular, does not discriminate.)

So we use that, suggestions, feedback, numbers gathered, watching 8v8's, etc, and eventually we come up with ideas. Then we test them. Tweak them. Test them. Tweak them. etc.

So while I'd love to tell you what changes we've made, none are in stone and until I have something to tell you that won't be wrong as of 9am the next day, I will.

I hope you all understand, we don't do this to be cruel, we do it because there is, quite literally, nothing of use to tell you yet, beyond that we've gathered our data, your suggestions, and are going through testing them now.

Edited by Orzorn, 25 January 2013 - 12:03 PM.

[Ravn]

Someone tell me again how ECM blocks an active laser tracing mechanism? Why does TAG not work within the vaunted bubble? In the future have they figured out how to use radio wave interference to block monosychronous light?

[LoneUnknown]

TAG needs to be toggle-able (press fire group to activate, press again to deactivate)

[Codejack]

Ravn, on 25 January 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

Someone tell me again how ECM blocks an active laser tracing mechanism? Why does TAG not work within the vaunted bubble? In the future have they figured out how to use radio wave interference to block monosychronous light?

I believe the official BS explanation is that ECM somehow hacks into your mech and shuts down only certain systems, like TAG and streaks, apparently because at some point in the future there was a galaxy-wide plague that left all of humanity mentally handicapped.

Edited by Codejack, 25 January 2013 - 12:21 PM.

[Kellea]

Orzorn, on 25 January 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

Garth himself said they are. They're just trying to figure out what to change.

Ok, I didn't know this post - this could be really good news if they don't pick an easy way out like two different kinds of ECM (counter OR disrupt only). Nevertheless the usefulness of TAG still remains in question (wether as an ECM-countermeasure or in general).

[So who took Pilot Name as a name]

Ravn, on 25 January 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

Someone tell me again how ECM blocks an active laser tracing mechanism? Why does TAG not work within the vaunted bubble? In the future have they figured out how to use radio wave interference to block monosychronous light?

It's been on my mind as well. I could understand how your mech being in the bubble can't get its **** straight and ''is unable to do something as simple as to tell its own missiles to follow the red dot'', so maybe people outside the bubble could benefit from the tag still... but make the TAG itself not work?

It's like, if it's ruining your electric system that bad, how is it that we don't see mechs twitching and breakdancing (or just standing there, non-responding) from having their entire control scheme disrupted? Since hey what's the difference between sending a command to move and sending a command to activate a laser.

Edited by So who took Pilot Name as a name, 25 January 2013 - 12:28 PM.

[Kellea]

ECM doesn't influence TAG afaik - if you got this impression from my post it's a misunderstanding. TAG counters ECM but only if it's active.

[Countersnip3r]

I personally run tag in many of my mechs and find it a smart approach to the ECM situation with one minor tweak:

Currently tag allows you to acquire a target that is under ECM but at a much slower rate than if the target was not under ECM. To be more effective I think tag should decrease the lock on time for a target not under ECM by 50% while a target that is tagged and is under ECM should return to the normal lock on rate. This promotes team play and a more effective counter to ECM.

This is coming from some one who runs a LRM boat more than half the time. ECM can be frustrating but with proper teamwork can be overcome.

On a side note I think a more balanced matchmaking that limits the amount of ECM per team and also the weight allowed per drop would further help balance the field.

[Ravn]

Only if you are outside the bubble shooting into it with tag. Try it. TAG does not work within ECM radius. Not for you, and not for people on the outside that you are attempting to TAG for.

[Kellea]

Still no changes to ECM - despite everything the devs might have said...

[Ilwrath]

The only problem with tag is that it occupies one energy slot. All mechs should be able to mount tag and only be punished by the added weight.

As long as you use the "tag always on" fix, tag works very well. It can be hard to tag fast moving ECM lights but its doable. It is also very fun when you send 70 lrm's up their tiny cheese arse. Not all will hit but enough will.

Edited by Ilwrath, 06 February 2013 - 03:24 AM.