43 replies to this topic

[Neokenfu]

Tangelis, on 07 February 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

ECM counter as it is in terms of game mecahnics is another ECM, but unless your builds rely entirely on SSRM's or LRM's any other weapon is still 100% functional.

I couldn't disagree more. ECM means there is way too much stumbling upon multiple heavies/assaults that can kill you very fast due to the radar jamming. That is independent of any weapons system.

Quote

We can argue night and day to the mechanics of countering ECM. Counter with ECM, tag etc.... but IMO the best counter to ECM is a good scout and communication.

Of course with PUGS the communication thing can sometimes be asking too much which is why ECM can be the be all end all absolute thing needed or you lose, but in the grand scope of things you work as a team as best you can, and you win like one. ECM or no ECM.......Communication is your best counter.

Do you have any recommendations on helping people communicate? I call out mechs, locations, and it just gets ignored from what I seee in peoples subseqent actions. Are there any hot keys to call out your target and their location that I'm missing? At least if people didn't use the info I could avoid putting myself in danger for trying to communicate that.

I agree that communication is the key but what is built in doesn't seem very helpful. I'm fairly new to MWO though so I might be missing something.

Does the VOIP buil;t in actually work? Should I just cave and go to the teamspeak servers so ECM isn't as big of a deal then?

[Tangelis]

Neokenfu, on 07 February 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

I couldn't disagree more. ECM means there is way too much stumbling upon multiple heavies/assaults that can kill you very fast due to the radar jamming. That is independent of any weapons system.

I understand what you mean here and you are correct in this statement. However, your question is concerning ECM counters, not the unpredictable variables of what can happen in a match due to the other teams actions or the result of the other team using ECM very well. Despite how fast they can rip you apart in the given example ECM doesn't prevent anyone from firing....or attempting to run. Even if you had ECM or if ECM didn't exist all together cresting a hill to a bunch of heavies and assaults would likely still kill you.

If you're looking for a counter that is an effective win button you will never find it. There are too many variables to consider. What you looking for here is more an exploit rather than a counter in my opinion.

Neokenfu, on 07 February 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

Do you have any recommendations on helping people communicate? I call out mechs, locations, and it just gets ignored from what I seee in peoples subseqent actions. Are there any hot keys to call out your target and their location that I'm missing? At least if people didn't use the info I could avoid putting myself in danger for trying to communicate that.

I agree that communication is the key but what is built in doesn't seem very helpful. I'm fairly new to MWO though so I might be missing something.

Does the VOIP buil;t in actually work? Should I just cave and go to the teamspeak servers so ECM isn't as big of a deal then?

If you want to play with Pre-mades you have nearly no choice but to cave.

Communication is another thing that is near equal to banging your head against a wall. Despite any recommendations no one can force anyone to use them. Especially with just the in game chat, best recommendation is the obvious.....use it and pay attention to it. Can't get easier than that! But most get too involved to use it accordingly, part in parcel with purely PUGing.

Ultimately if you really want to capitalize on communication D/L teamspeak, and find some guys/gals to play with using VOIP. Not in game yet so you need a 3rd party program. You still have to deal with the variables of a PUG but the communication aspect is there so it's an upside. The downside is having to deal with "some"...I say some because most are pretty cool people,... but "some" are just idiots whom revel with insulting your play and just have downright childish behavior.

[Wolf Clearwater]

IceCase88, on 07 February 2013 - 06:12 PM, said:

Having too many counters for ECM would effectively make ECM pointless. NARC needs some work but not because of ECM. BAP is relevant again since you cannot IFF shutdown mechs. No offense meant but these ECM is OP threads are stupid and pointless. It works as intended. It only affects 2 of the many weapons in the entire game. Just 2 people. Only 2. If people would bring balanced mechs to the game it would be a non-issue. Just because it infringes upon your play-style does not mean it is OP. Bring a balanced mech instead of boating and your play will become better. My Stalker is balanced with short, medium, and long range weapons and I have TAG. I have no issues with ECM. It really just comes down to L2P.

Clearly you do not pilot a light mech.

[Chavette]

Hardcounter to ECM

Stop using click-to-kill weapons, and have some skill.

Too bad its out of the question for most forum cryers.

Edited by Chavette, 09 February 2013 - 07:15 AM.

[AlexEss]

The simplest way to counter ECM right now (apart from bring more then the other side) if a team of well coordinated light/medium mechs. you only need two of them to make a ECM mech cry. Especially light ones who tend to overextend them self

Simply focus fire the poor sod down.

[Stingz]

More ECM, Voice chat, those are the most reliable counters.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mk1 Eyeballs, Thermal vision direct fire weapons & SRMs serve me rather well.

[Little Nemo]

Just use thermal and fire something that isn't a lock-on weapon...

[FupDup]

Chavette, on 09 February 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

Stop using click-to-kill weapons, and have some skill.

Not to be that guy, but direct-fire weapons (and SRMs) also require clicking in order to kill people with them...

Edited by FupDup, 09 February 2013 - 08:12 AM.

[Deamhan]

If, after the upcoming changes, ECM is still too powerful for what it costs to bring. Maybe the next step would be to up the cost a bit. Instead of have its own hard point, maybe it could use a weapon hard point. Just as omni points allow any weapon type to be equipped, the ECM could be an omni module that can use any hard point.

It gives the user a bit of flexibility on where it goes, but it takes the place of a weapon.

[StalaggtIKE]

What I've deducted, to reliably counter ECM you need:

• TS or other 3rd party equivalent
  
• coordinated team effort
  
• do not bring SSRM or LRM
  
• ECM arms race

All an ECM pilot must do is equip the device, yet in order to counter you must play at a better skill level than him. Or utilize a coordinated team effort to take him down. There is clearly nothing wrong here.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 09 February 2013 - 08:23 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 09 February 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

Not to be that guy, but direct-fire weapons (and SRMs) also require clicking in order to kill people with them...

I know. I used to be a LRM boat captain. I can tell from experience, I do not work any harder getting compairable numbers with Gauss, Lasers or other Ballistics.

[StalaggtIKE]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 February 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

I know. I used to be a LRM boat captain. I can tell from experience, I do not work any harder getting compairable numbers with Gauss, Lasers or other Ballistics.

Agreed. I would dare say, with the faster travel speed, it's easier.

[Joseph Mallan]

StalaggtIKE, on 09 February 2013 - 08:28 AM, said:

Agreed. I would dare say, with the faster travel speed, it's easier.

I do get much more damage using LoS weapons so I will definitely agree sir. I have never "snapped off" a Salvo of LRMs and insta killed a Jenner!

[R0adK1ll]

Taizan, on 07 February 2013 - 05:23 PM, said:

More like this currently:
4 D-DC
2 Cat SRM
2 RVN-ML

......And that is pathetic. The fact that a single component has so heavily influenced the selection of mechs is ridiculious. The minor tweaks that have been proposed to adjust ECM's performance are inadequate and this selection bias is going to continue. It weakens the game and makes it incredibly boring.

[R0adK1ll]

IceCase88, on 07 February 2013 - 06:12 PM, said:

Having too many counters for ECM would effectively make ECM pointless. NARC needs some work but not because of ECM. BAP is relevant again since you cannot IFF shutdown mechs. No offense meant but these ECM is OP threads are stupid and pointless. It works as intended. It only affects 2 of the many weapons in the entire game. Just 2 people. Only 2. If people would bring balanced mechs to the game it would be a non-issue. Just because it infringes upon your play-style does not mean it is OP. Bring a balanced mech instead of boating and your play will become better. My Stalker is balanced with short, medium, and long range weapons and I have TAG. I have no issues with ECM. It really just comes down to L2P.

The primary impact of ECM is not the way it interferes with 2 weapon systems, its the cloaking of mechs within 180m which is the problem. That level of tactical advantage doesn't exist on the modern field of combat. Every time someone develops a defence measure the other side promptly develops an effective counter to pierce the measure hence "stealth" aricraft don't really exist.

[Gaan Cathal]

R0adK1ll, on 09 February 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

The primary impact of ECM is not the way it interferes with 2 weapon systems, its the cloaking of mechs within 180m which is the problem. That level of tactical advantage doesn't exist on the modern field of combat. Every time someone develops a defence measure the other side promptly develops an effective counter to pierce the measure hence "stealth" aricraft don't really exist.

Hate to break it to you man, but MWO =/= Modern Warfare Online.


I do have to say I'm slightly curious as to why the missile-lock-defeating element was added to ECM, certainly LRMs were pretty much where they needed to be before it's release (minus not needing TAG for IDF) and the Streak buff-nerf cycle had more to do with the lagshield.

[Chavette]

FupDup, on 09 February 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

Not to be that guy, but direct-fire weapons (and SRMs) also require clicking in order to kill people with them...

Not true, they need aiming too.

[Joseph Mallan]

Chavette, on 09 February 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

Not true, they need aiming too.

Try using LRMs for any length of time. You have to keep your aim on a Mech longer to hit with LRMs than with Direct fire weapons. This is espesially true with ballistics. I have done a lot of firing all the weapons, direct fire is way easy! And I have all direct fire load outs to prove it!

[Deamhan]

Yeah, people need to realize that these are not fire and forget missiles. They demand that you maintain lock or else they stop tracking and simply hit the ground behind the mech that you lost lock on.

It certainly helps in a group if your team actually targets the focus but even that doesn't mean a thing if that target is under ECM cover, not have ECM equipped themselves, but to simply be under its protective umbrella. So you pack a tag, well now you have to maintain line of sight and it has a short decay so you have to keep you crosshairs on the target.