32 replies to this topic

[Jungle Rhino]

I just thought I would write up a quick note about why I think MPL are still a very good choice compared to the regular ML, a lot of people seem to write them off.

First the stats:

Medium Laser
Dam: 5
Heat: 4
Beam: 1.0s
Weight: 1T
Range: 270m

Medium Pulse Laser
Dam: 6
Heat: 5
Beam: 0.75s
Weight: 2T
Range: 180m


Ok so the ML is clearly a more all round weapon with better range, slightly more damage per heat (1.25 vs 1.2) and a lower fitting requirement (important for lighter mechs)

BUT

The big difference that is often overlooked is the damage per second when the beam is actually on the target - or more specifically on target components. Lets face it you don't kill or cripple mechs by spamming damage it needs to be targetted or focused. In this situation we see quite a stark difference.

ML beam damage per second = 5/1.0 = 5
MPL beam damage per second = 6/0.75 = 8

So you can see that when it comes to coring out a twisting mech, or trying to headshot a Splatapult at close range, the MPL is actually doing 60% more damage per second you can keep your beam on that component.


So how does this help in practise?
Torso beam slots - which are quite difficult to track a moving target with can benefit from making use of pulse lasers. I find them a great upgrade for Centurions, particularly my Wang or CN9-AL. They also make a lot of sense for a laser Awesome, or a secondary weapon on an Atlas which typically runs out of space for heatsinks before they run out of tonnage.

But it really comes down to your personal style as losing the range is a downside. So I would probably use them as a secondary weapon - would work nicely coupled with PPCs as a primary damage dealer then switch to the MPL for close range where the PPCs are no good.

Anyway hope somebody finds this helpful/interesting.

[LordDante]

when using a cn9 it depends on ur playstyle
in the beginning when i was more brawling the mplas where better for me because i would loose my ac/20 anyway before i was out of ammo so the weight was no problem.

now that i play may wang as rear guard for the atalai or ( enter any other assault mech here ) i rather have more ac ammunition because the fat guy will get focused so i have time to use the big gun before it gets blown of .


but i have to admit that i seldom manage to get rid of all my ammo

[Lupin]

I agree this is down to play style, I find MPL better for concentrated damage on fast moving mechs. But this does me you have to be a better shot and learn to pick your target area.

[Lexeii]

Not taking playstyle into account, for me it's often a matter of heatefficiency, available tonnage and hardpoints.
With my CDA-3M (It could be the 3C... wichever has 4 energy hardpoints and NOT the 4 Ballistic one) I use 4 MPL because I can get a total higher dmg with acceptable heatefficiency. Plus at some points it gets hard to fit additional DHS.
Engagement times are seldomly long enough so the more sustainable ML dmg really matters in this case (also I don't overheat quickly even with the 4 MPL)

[Kiiyor]

Biggest decider for me is ping. I'm in Australia, so most of my mech piloting commands are conveyed by carrier pigeon. The shorter beam duration is awesome.

[XSive Death]

LordDante, on 08 February 2013 - 02:02 AM, said:

atalai

AtlasES *twitch*

[Grotoiler]

Kiiyor, on 08 February 2013 - 03:06 AM, said:

Biggest decider for me is ping. I'm in Australia, so most of my mech piloting commands are conveyed by carrier pigeon. The shorter beam duration is awesome.

The Ping's the clincher for me too... Here in South Africa it's smoke signals tied to the carrier pigeon, skewered and launched repeatedly on bow and arrow... resulting in 370-plus average for me :/

That said though, I havent tried PLas yet.... maybe tonight i'll load some up on my hunchie and see what the disco-lights can do...

[twibs]

XSive Death, on 08 February 2013 - 03:52 AM, said:

AtlasES *twitch*

AtlAI *glare*

Yes, MPLAS are just about the only pulse laser that are actually usefull. SPLAS is just pitifull compared to MLAS in every way and LPLAS just too heavy and not good enough to make them stand out.

[OneEyed Jack]

twibs, on 08 February 2013 - 04:13 AM, said:

AtlAI *glare*

Dictionary.com said:

At·las
noun, plural At·las·es

[Khobai]

All the pulse lasers are bad.

In tabletop the main advantage of pulse lasers is that they get a -2 bonus to hit. That means a pulse laser at medium range is as accurate as a laser at short range.

So how do we translate that into MWO? Well I see two possibilities:

1) pulse lasers should do bonus damage at upto half their max range

2) pulse lasers should have less damage dropoff than regular lases (x3 absolute max range instead of x2)

[MustrumRidcully]

OneEyed Jack, on 08 February 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

It has been long decided: http://mwomercs.com/...lases-vote-now/

Khobai, on 08 February 2013 - 04:41 AM, said:

All the pulse lasers are bad.

In tabletop the main advantage of pulse lasers is that they get a -2 bonus to hit. That means a pulse laser at medium range is as accurate as a laser at short range.

So how do we translate that into MWO? Well I see two possibilities:

1) pulse lasers should do bonus damage at upto half their max range

2) pulse lasers should have less damage dropoff than regular lases (x3 absolute max range instead of x2)

The current solution is - Pulse Lasers have a shorter beam duration. That means you don't have to maintain your fire so long on a target, making it more of an "instant-hit" weapon.

I personally think the differences between regular and pulse lasers could be a bit bigger, and larger lasers should have a lower duration than smaller lasers.
maybe something like:
Small Laser: 1.5 seconds
Medium Laser: 1.25 seconds
Large Laser: 1.0 seconds
ER Large Laser: 0.75 seconds
Small Pulse Laser: 0.75 second
MediuM Pulse Laser: 0.5 seconds
Large Pulse Laser: 0.25 seconds.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 08 February 2013 - 05:05 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

The current solution is - Pulse Lasers have a shorter beam duration.

Yeah except thats not good enough to justify the extra weight. Especially when they have less range.

[El Bandito]

I thought Pulse lasers shred internals 10x better than beam lasers?

Anyone can comment on that?

Edited by El Bandito, 08 February 2013 - 05:14 AM.

[HurlockHolmes]

El Bandito, on 08 February 2013 - 05:13 AM, said:

I thought Pulse lasers shred internals 10x better than beam lasers?

Anyone can comment on that?

Not in game no, but according to sarna it strips armor more effectively.

http://www.sarna.net...ium_Pulse_Laser

MustrumRidcully, on 08 February 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

The current solution is - Pulse Lasers have a shorter beam duration. That means you don't have to maintain your fire so long on a target, making it more of an "instant-hit" weapon.

I personally think the differences between regular and pulse lasers could be a bit bigger, and larger lasers should have a lower duration than smaller lasers.
maybe something like:
Small Laser: 1.5 seconds
Medium Laser: 1.25 seconds
Large Laser: 1.0 seconds
ER Large Laser: 0.75 seconds
Small Pulse Laser: 0.75 second
MediuM Pulse Laser: 0.5 seconds
Large Pulse Laser: 0.25 seconds.

I think that is way to extreme, small lasers would become near useless since the trade offs for trying to use them as a main weapon is rather large as is anyway.

I was thinking more along the line of pulse weapons having a faster recycle time, might make them worth the weight, but still limits them due to heat.

Edited by HurlockHolmes, 08 February 2013 - 05:29 AM.

[OneEyed Jack]

MustrumRidcully, on 08 February 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

It has been long decided: http://mwomercs.com/...lases-vote-now/

Yeah, sorry. The MWO forums don't get to determine the language.

El Bandito, on 08 February 2013 - 05:13 AM, said:

I thought Pulse lasers shred internals 10x better than beam lasers?

Anyone can comment on that?

It's better for being able to focus more of the beam on the location you want. If that location is open, it is therefore better at critting.

Edited by OneEyed Jack, 08 February 2013 - 05:26 AM.

[CG Oglethorpe Kerensky]

El Bandito, on 08 February 2013 - 05:13 AM, said:

I thought Pulse lasers shred internals 10x better than beam lasers?

Anyone can comment on that?

Sure, the answer is no.
Because lasers use what is basically a DoT method of delivering damage (although the time is a second or less) they hit internals with multiple, tiny, hits. So what you end up with is more likely that you damage several internal items, but less likely to destroy any of them. I find ballistics, and to a lesser extent SRMs, more likely to knock out components.

[De La Fresniere]

El Bandito, on 08 February 2013 - 05:13 AM, said:

I thought Pulse lasers shred internals 10x better than beam lasers?

Anyone can comment on that?

On armor or internals, damage is damage. There isn't a single weapon in the game that works better on one or the other. If you're talking crits, that's another matter; let's just say lasers are *all* pretty bad at crits.

MPLs are kind of specialized weapons. Nearly everything about them is a drawback; higher heat per damage, 33% shorter range, *double* weight... but it does have significantly higher DPS (if you can dissipate the extra heat), and if you're unable to keep your laser on target, it will indeed focus damage more.

Personally I'm fairly good with lasers so I don't mind the extra beam duration of regular ones. I never use pulse lasers of any kind, but I can see why some people would use them.

[Gaan Cathal]

I use them on my splatraven, the frontloaded damage is a significant advantage for a light, both when duelling and when going hit-and-run against heavy targets and the range reduction is a nonissue, especially when combined with SRMs that work best at <200m.

[Windsaw]

On every light mech that I use mostly with lasers I use MPLs.
When moving fast, often striking while passing by, the shorter beam duration of the MPL is a significant advantage. Especially when moving against other light mechs.
Sure, the extra weight hurts. But after trying out different combinations I almost always returned to MPLs.

I say that medium pulse lasers are a strong weapon, but only in certain situations.
It's certainly not a weapon for most builds.

Edited by Windsaw, 08 February 2013 - 05:44 AM.

[CodeNameValtus]

MPL is more focused damage. However, when a Jenner/Commando is flying around your heavy/assault mech at 150kph. I'd rather just toss out the ML beam and drag it across his legs multiple times. As with the MPL you usually only hit 1-2 out of the 3 bursts on his legs. With MLs you can click and drag, and focus 75+% of the beam duration on his legs. It's a matter of preference.

I find that standard lasers with their always on beam, tend to miss less when tracking faster targets, and the extended beam time gives you even more time for sync and hitscanning to make sure you are leading them properly.

MPL while it is higher DPS while on target, doesn't really allow for the hitscan, or dragging the beam across vital areas as much. That extra beam time comes in handy when you are trying to leg mechs much lighter than you running circles around your mech. I usually favor MLs over MPLs for my heavier mechs for this reason. At least this way, I can fend them off myself, without needing much help from my teammates.