17 replies to this topic

[BigDaddySpin]

Hi All,

I'm looking for some tips and hints. I don't have a whole lot of time to play, so I have a tendancy to just PUG it up for a few matches and then call it a night. I decided that I wanted to mess around with the CTF4X because it looked like a fun variant, but I'm kinda at my wits end with what to do.

The stock design wasn't working for me. I didn't seem to have any sort of a punch to deliver a kill shot unless a mech was basically dead in the water anyway. So I went to the forums and found this build:

http://www.mechspecs...?290-The-Howler

Kudos to Aware for sharing this build.

The Howler is a fun looking build, but I don't like UAC/5s for the jamming. In my misguided wisdom I decided to modify it into what I call "The Squealer". I went with all AC/5s and instead of mixing the ammo, I went with 6 tons of ammo, an AMS (and a ton of ammo there) and I kept some armor on the legs. I went with Endosteel internals and said "Ok punks lets do dis!"

I started off with 3 weapon groups conservatively grouped. 1 for left, 2 for right and 3 for all at once. This was fun but it felt like I wasn't doing a whole lot of damage. So i went to 2 groups with all of the guns enabled. WG 1 was chain fired and 2 was all guns. This was quite fun whenever I dropped into a group with a lot of other heavies an I could stay on the flank. With chain fire, you literally are constantly firing. I never overheated, except once in the caldera.

Still, I wasn't really killing anything other than lights that were already limping along. I was averaging about 300 damage a match which I have no idea if that is good or bad, but very rarely did I actually kill anything. I never ran out of ammo. So I added a beagle probe (what does that do anyway) and I converted to double heat sinks. Converting to double heat sinks was more for weight management than heat as I didnt have any heat issues. I also added 2 CASE to stop all the ammo explosions I was experiencing.

I'm sort of frustrated with the lack of kills, especially when I'm pounding on someone for 10-15 shots and I'm lucky to see a component destroy. I've had several matches where my team wins and I have 3-5 assists, but I have no kills. Its especially irritating when I'm pounding on medium mechs and I can't get the kill. Even when I start shooting all 4 guns at once, I'm just not getting kills on targets I have dead to rights.

My deaths I understand... and I'm not surprised when I die horribly. My engine is a standard and I'm too slow. I should upgrade the engine, but I am worried an XL will just hurry my death. I also have a tendancy to charge atlases 'guns a-blazing' which ends badly for me, but it is mildly amusing.

So... tips? Advice? Build?

[jshill78]

Advice for the CTF-4X...

Go into a match and walk over to a vertical wall. Get up close and fire at it with ALL 4 AC/5's Note where you're rounds land. Back farther away, note range, fire ALL 4, and note where your rounds land. Continue to do this and note the ranges. What you're learning is called CONVERGENCE and how it affects your mech. What you want to find is the point (range) where all 4 rounds land in the same location or with as minimal spread as possible.

Now, once you've learned that, you know the range you need to engage at to be most effective.

Now you need to change you mentality on your mech. What are you? You are a Dual AC/20 boat with a faster rate of fire. Always fire all 4 of your AC/5's together for that 20 point alpha. You can do this every 1.70 seconds. The Dual AC/20 boat has a 40 point alpha every 4.00 seconds. You have a 40 point double tap every 3.4 seconds. You have the advantage of rate of fire and range on the Dual AC/20 boats. Learn to make proper use of those advantages.

[Shade4x]

BigDaddySpin, on 08 February 2013 - 07:38 AM, said:

So... tips? Advice? Build?

XL if fine, however you can not brawl with it. You need to be the guy in the back field. Your far to slow even with an XL to do anything. That being said, Here is my XL setup
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...25d8cc481925ad8
I bind the 4 AC/5's on one fire group then II bind the srm4's and small lasers on the 2nd weapons fire group.
Do not chain fire the AC/5's Unless your fighting someone with an AC/20, Gauss, SRM, or any weapon that puts all your eggs in one basket, as the only real reason to use chainfire is to constantly joggle their screen so they cannot aim. If you have heat problems there is a better solution then chain firing. It's called not shooting.

The thing you need to consider while playing the 4x is that 4 AC/5's is essentially 1 AC/20 with range and nearly triple the fire rate. That means you really need to be accurate when shooting, and it needs to be constantly accurate. If you can get 3-4 shots on a CT with 4x AC/5's, you will core anything but a stalker/atlas. When your chain firing you have to be 4 times more accurate because your shooting 4 times faster. Usually the damage spreads out around the enemy's body, this is a mistake. unless your going for components, hitting any other target besides the center core is mostly a waste. What good does 10 damage do in the shoulder's if they die from center coring.

The other alternative is the tank build, which you seem to have. 4 ac/5's and a standard engine. I always try to fit 2 small lasers on anyways as it helps if you run out of ammo, and the damage they do at close range adds up. The biggest difference between the standard vs XL is essentially a choice between survivability and fire power, close range and long range. Cataphracts make good tank's, there hitboxes nearly force the enemey to strip them bfore they can Center Torso them.

300 damage is kinda low, however keep this in mind.

Coring a mech with 80 damage is much better and more elite then coring a mech at 300
Your with your team, so kills don't matter as much as being useful and doing your job.
K/D is not really important right now due to the systems, weapons, and horrid PUG balancing atm.

[Shade4x]

jshill78, on 08 February 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

Advice for the CTF-4X...

Go into a match and walk over to a vertical wall. Get up close and fire at it with ALL 4 AC/5's Note where you're rounds land. Back farther away, note range, fire ALL 4, and note where your rounds land. Continue to do this and note the ranges. What you're learning is called CONVERGENCE and how it affects your mech. What you want to find is the point (range) where all 4 rounds land in the same location or with as minimal spread as possible.

Now, once you've learned that, you know the range you need to engage at to be most effective.

Now you need to change you mentality on your mech. What are you? You are a Dual AC/20 boat with a faster rate of fire. Always fire all 4 of your AC/5's together for that 20 point alpha. You can do this every 1.70 seconds. The Dual AC/20 boat has a 40 point alpha every 4.00 seconds. You have a 40 point double tap every 3.4 seconds. You have the advantage of rate of fire and range on the Dual AC/20 boats. Learn to make proper use of those advantages.

Agreed. However weapons convergence i believe is the time it takes for your sights to readjust on a target, (IE if your looking at a mountain 1000 meters away, the bullets converage at 1000 meters, if you focus on a mountain 500 meters away you converage at 500 meters. If you lead a target your convergence is the distance of where you are looking) It takes time to reconverage. So basicly you want to keep the mech in your sights or target something just as close. I could be wrong, but thats how it seems to work with me.

I also agree with what you said about range on AC/20's. You can legitimately snipe with the build if you needed to.

[jshill78]

DO NOT EQUIP AN XL.

For the love of all creation. Not in a Cataphract. Sheesh. With a standard 225 you can still go faster than a CPLT-K2 AC/20 boat and you'll have more ammo.

4 tons is all you need and will last about as long as your standard life expectancy. The Standard 225 build will give you 2 extra tons. You can either go up to a 245 for more speed OR you can equip more heat sinks (wasted imo) or 1 medium laser and 1 heat sink (best). It'll give you a slight damage advantage over the AC/20 boats and give you something to do IF you out live your ammo.

I personally go without it and just go up to the Standard 245. Speed wins. You can just meat shield if you go out of ammo. Soaking up damage can be just as helpful as doing damage.

CTF-4X

[jshill78]

https://www.youtube....d&v=-5DpAeVID-o

[BigDaddySpin]

Thanks for the advice... so I should get rid of the beagle and run with just 1 heatsink? I got an error message that said I needed 2 double heat sinks min... did I just read that error wrong? I will start checking my weapon convergence as well. I suspect I might just be too close or too far to be effective.

I have been trying to stay at range and behind other heavies. Every so often the berserker tard in me runs forward with guns a blazin... I'll try not to do that.

6 tons of ammo is too much? I will upgrade the engine (stickin with standards) and see what happens.

[MasterBLB]

Well,there are 2 ways how to design a 4X
1st,a brawler with std engine.
This allows you to survive loose of side torso.About armament,I found the best potent is 2xAC10,2xMedium Laser and SRM4 or SSRM2 with 255STD

2nd,something using XL engine
Sadly,the even with the best possible engine (255XL) you won't be fast enough to prevent enemies target your torsos.Well,in that case you have only one reasonable way,2xGauss,2xMedium Laser,SRM4 or SSRM2.You should play this build as a medium range supporter,avoid brawls as much as you can.

[Selfish]

MasterBLB, on 08 February 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

Well,there are 2 ways how to design a 4X
1st,a brawler with std engine.
This allows you to survive loose of side torso.About armament,I found the best potent is 2xAC10,2xMedium Laser and SRM4 or SSRM2 with 255STD

2nd,something using XL engine
Sadly,the even with the best possible engine (255XL) you won't be fast enough to prevent enemies target your torsos.Well,in that case you have only one reasonable way,2xGauss,2xMedium Laser,SRM4 or SSRM2.You should play this build as a medium range supporter,avoid brawls as much as you can.

This is largely the truth of it. If you're new to the game I'd recommend running the AC/10 standard engine build. It gives you the fastest speed available for the 4x, doesn't skimp on damage, and functions very well even when it's lost its arms and side torsos. This is very useful for diversions/secondary tanking, and it can even cover your mistakes if you're still learning. You will always have a fallback weapon in the 4X. That's something I find pretty invaluable working in tag-team with a friend, or with an assault I follow during a solo PUG match.

I recently made a video of the build here. It's a bit NSFW and, most reprehensibly, features a song by Melissa Etheridge, but I think it helps show that the mech can still pull weight.

[Jabilo]

Just bought a 4X

Feels like a an old Volvo compared to my 3d which feels like a Porsche.

I put 4 x A/C 5 on it, a crappy 225 engine I stripped out of my hunchback and because I can not afford double heat sinks it keeps over heating (yes overheating with no energy weapons!).

It also runs out of ammo easily and has a turning circle the size of an aircraft carriers - but it is fun fun fun!

I have to say I am tempted to save up for an XL engine. With a few more tons to play with I can sort out all of its problems (bigger engine, more ammo).

Seriously though, when I have the money to sort it out I feel the 4X can be a very effective mech. Having all the ballistic weapons on the arms makes aiming a joy - something even the Muromets can not bring to the table.

Edited by Jabilo, 09 February 2013 - 03:02 AM.

[Snowcrow]

The downside with using a standard engine with the 4x AC/5 build is that you won't have much ammo.
I have a 4x with an xl 255 engine. Speed: 59, without speed tweak.
I can fit 8 tons of ammo in that thing. Keep in mind that with this build your role is medium range fire support.
Never engage alone. Always follow someone around.
It is extremely rare that I die due to my side torso being blown up. At when it does happen, my center torso is bleeding red anyway.

If you want to brawl, I'd go with a standard engine though.

Edited by Snowcrow, 09 February 2013 - 03:41 AM.

[Regrets]

OP, not sure what your FPS is, but first rule of MWO is don't try to snipe with a slow pc.

[HiplyRustic]

MasterBLB, on 08 February 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

Well,there are 2 ways how to design a 4X
1st,a brawler with std engine.
This allows you to survive loose of side torso.About armament,I found the best potent is 2xAC10,2xMedium Laser and SRM4 or SSRM2 with 255STD

2nd,something using XL engine
Sadly,the even with the best possible engine (255XL) you won't be fast enough to prevent enemies target your torsos.Well,in that case you have only one reasonable way,2xGauss,2xMedium Laser,SRM4 or SSRM2.You should play this build as a medium range supporter,avoid brawls as much as you can.

I'm using the XL/2 Gauss|ML|SRM4 variant when I decide to blow the dust off my 4X. Works ok, dual gauss in the face can make people dislike you...in a good way...when they are not expecting you to be running them.

[twibs]

I use my XLs in CTF just fine. Kill them before they kill you.

[TheFuzzyBunny]

I use the XL in mine. I also put in two MLs and enough ammo to dakka for a long time. The 10 damage from the MLs is a rather potent damage multiplier. I won't leave home with out them now. I could drop the AMS, but it isn't on there for me. Its more for help protect the slow *** assault I'm supporting, and I don't run out of ammo normally.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...036993dd067c1fa

[MasterBLB]

Sure,XL engine may be used in 4x.Just remember to arm something which can put opponent down really quickly as you don't have time for longer brawls.
I found 2xGauss is the best combination,but perhaps 2xAC5 2xUAC5 will work with XL engine too.

[Bogus]

This sounds like what I use...quad AC5, endosteel, std 200 engine. It's an old fit from before UAC5 got rebalanced, but it's very effective at any range provided you don't let yourself get surrounded as it's too slow to run away. It sounds like you're doing it right, putting lots of damage on target, but maybe you could be better about going center mass or exploiting weakened internals. Personally I wouldn't worry too much about not getting lots of kills as those tend to go to lights and snipers doing surgical strikes.

And definitely ditch the Beagle. It's only really useful for LRM boats to get a lock, provided you can tell which mechs are the enemy you can just shoot at them.

[Pkunk]

BigDaddySpin, on 08 February 2013 - 07:38 AM, said:

..especially when I'm pounding on someone for 10-15 shots and I'm lucky to see a component destroyed

If this happens often you can try switching to quad ac/2. Higher dps,more ammo, best range in the game. You could try this:
CTF-4X

The dual ac/10 build also seems good. I've used dual ac/10 on my ilya and 3D and the high crit change gives you higher probability for killing blows.

Edited by Pkunk, 10 February 2013 - 02:00 AM.