22 replies to this topic

[Tuku]

So state rewind quite literally pulls the target mech back into place to take its due whippin....sweet!

I had a friend who thought during closed beta that this was what they where doing due to rubberbanding jenners...

My question is this, isn't this going to cause rubberbanding? ok answered my own question there lol....wont cause rubberbanding because it only rewinds what the server sees not what I see.


My second question though .

Lets say The enemy who ill call Target is being shot at by shooters A and B who I will just refer to them by their letters .


Target runs past A in a Jenner

A fires on Target

B notices A and decideds to help.

B fires on Target as it is in state rewind for A's shot

Dose B's shot miss or dose it do it on a per shooter basis?

[Matthew Craig]

It's on a per shooter basis

[WardenWolf]

I may start a separate thread on this, but it is related to the OP's question:

What does state rewind look like from the eyes of the person being shot at? Will we be taking damage from lasers that appear to be missing us?

And a follow-up: if yes to the question above, why is the shooter given priority over the target in this change? Knowing where an enemy is firing is important in the course of trying to dodge fire, and it seems that this with make it more complicated to see when weapons are actually impacting.

Please note that I pilot almost exclusively Atlases, so I'm not a light pilot whining about being hit more - I just want to know what it looks like from both sides, and how that has affected the design choices.

[Chrithu]

I have got a question too. As Neema explained in his post this first phase is for scanning weapons only.

Where exactly is the difference between those weapons and ballistic style weapons? I mean if the rewind works for hitscan it should work for ballistics too or am I missing something?

[Warrax the Chaos Warrior]

WardenWolf, on 04 March 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

I may start a separate thread on this, but it is related to the OP's question:

What does state rewind look like from the eyes of the person being shot at? Will we be taking damage from lasers that appear to be missing us?

And a follow-up: if yes to the question above, why is the shooter given priority over the target in this change? Knowing where an enemy is firing is important in the course of trying to dodge fire, and it seems that this with make it more complicated to see when weapons are actually impacting.

Please note that I pilot almost exclusively Atlases, so I'm not a light pilot whining about being hit more - I just want to know what it looks like from both sides, and how that has affected the design choices.

My guess would be that some shots may appear to pass through solid objects and terrain. They would technically be legit hits though, you just didn't know about it until after it happened.

[WolvesX]

[redacted]

Edited by miSs, 04 March 2013 - 05:35 PM.
off-topic

[Redshift2k5]

Jason Parker, on 04 March 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

I have got a question too. As Neema explained in his post this first phase is for scanning weapons only.

Where exactly is the difference between those weapons and ballistic style weapons? I mean if the rewind works for hitscan it should work for ballistics too or am I missing something?

hitscan weapons don't have to add further calculations to account for travel time or ballistic drop.

[Warrax the Chaos Warrior]

WolvesX, on 04 March 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

[redacted]

It's nice to get a break from those threads, there are plenty of those already. Also, we don't know if anything is P2W until we know the actual cost...

[Tuku]

Matthew Craig, on 04 March 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

It's on a per shooter basis

Thanks much for you quick answer

WardenWolf, on 04 March 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

I may start a separate thread on this, but it is related to the OP's question:

What does state rewind look like from the eyes of the person being shot at? Will we be taking damage from lasers that appear to be missing us?

And a follow-up: if yes to the question above, why is the shooter given priority over the target in this change? Knowing where an enemy is firing is important in the course of trying to dodge fire, and it seems that this with make it more complicated to see when weapons are actually impacting.

Please note that I pilot almost exclusively Atlases, so I'm not a light pilot whining about being hit more - I just want to know what it looks like from both sides, and how that has affected the design choices.

WardenWolf, on 04 March 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

I may start a separate thread on this, but it is related to the OP's question:

What does state rewind look like from the eyes of the person being shot at? Will we be taking damage from lasers that appear to be missing us?

And a follow-up: if yes to the question above, why is the shooter given priority over the target in this change? Knowing where an enemy is firing is important in the course of trying to dodge fire, and it seems that this with make it more complicated to see when weapons are actually impacting.

Please note that I pilot almost exclusively Atlases, so I'm not a light pilot whining about being hit more - I just want to know what it looks like from both sides, and how that has affected the design choices.

I am not sure but given this solution only effects what the server sees...I would assume that they would not see the hit....could be wrong though. You may want to post your own thread... I think they may be looking for questions like this. Makes less work for the dev who is trying to find stuff to answer .

[Chrithu]

WolvesX, on 04 March 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

[redacted]

Ignore me for the quoted post was removed.

Edited by Jason Parker, 04 March 2013 - 05:44 PM.

[Tuku]

WolvesX, on 04 March 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

[redacted]

I wont argue the merrits of the collant thing in this thread as it isn't the topic of this thread. I will just say that you sir should warn your doctor when he dose your reflex check....that knee jerk reaction could harm someone some day.

[Matthew Craig]

Jason Parker, on 04 March 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

I have got a question too. As Neema explained in his post this first phase is for scanning weapons only. Where exactly is the difference between those weapons and ballistic style weapons? I mean if the rewind works for hitscan it should work for ballistics too or am I missing something?

The difference is after doing the state rewind if you fire an instant hit weapon you get the result right away, but if you fire a projectile it now needs time to track towards the target, during which we need to run the simulation forward and see if it really did hit as mentioned taking into account that the target may be running behind a building etc.

Basically the difference is the travel time means they have to be handled differently. This said we made a separate fix to the network layer that does have the potential to improve ballistic weapon fire so some users may notice an improvement to ballistics tomorrow.

[Rashhaverak]

Awesome... pinpoint accuracy will certainly separate the poor light pilots from the good ones.

[Targetloc]

Matthew Craig, on 04 March 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

The difference is after doing the state rewind if you fire an instant hit weapon you get the result right away, but if you fire a projectile it now needs time to track towards the target, during which we need to run the simulation forward and see if it really did hit as mentioned taking into account that the target may be running behind a building etc.

Basically the difference is the travel time means they have to be handled differently. This said we made a separate fix to the network layer that does have the potential to improve ballistic weapon fire so some users may notice an improvement to ballistics tomorrow.

Doesn't that violate causality?

[Tuku]

Targetloc, on 04 March 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

Doesn't that violate causality?

GET YOUR PHYSICS OUT OF MY BATTLE ROBOTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chrithu]

Matthew Craig, on 04 March 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

The difference is after doing the state rewind if you fire an instant hit weapon you get the result right away, but if you fire a projectile it now needs time to track towards the target, during which we need to run the simulation forward and see if it really did hit as mentioned taking into account that the target may be running behind a building etc.

Basically the difference is the travel time means they have to be handled differently. This said we made a separate fix to the network layer that does have the potential to improve ballistic weapon fire so some users may notice an improvement to ballistics tomorrow.

Thanks for taking the time to answer those questions. I got a follow up question though: Doesn't the server need to do the same for the Hitscan weapon? I mean running the simulation forward again to keep track of where the beam hits during the beam time of for instance a large laser (which is quite long). I mean it isn't like the complete damage of a LL goes to the place I aimed at when I pulled the trigger no matter where I move the crosshair afterwards, or is it?

I got it though that for a projectile weapon you need to run the forward simulation for both the target and the projectile to see if the projectile did hit. That makes sense and I missed that point.

[OneEyed Jack]

It's going to do the check once for each "tick" of the weapon, I'd assume. The beam is just graphics. The code divides the laser into 10 separate hits. It's like a MG, but useful.

[Edit for spelling]

Edited by OneEyed Jack, 04 March 2013 - 05:48 PM.

[The Cheese]

Question: Will we still have a firing delay on non-hitscan weapons once the state rewind system is implemented for those?

Edited by The Cheese, 04 March 2013 - 05:51 PM.

[Chrithu]

OneEyed Jack, on 04 March 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

It's going to do the check once for each "tick" of the weapon, I'd assume. The beam is just graphics. The code divides the laser into 10 separate hits. It's like a MG, but useful.

[Edit for spelling]

Ah that makes sense. So while I am shooting a laser the update my client sends to the server tells the server my heading and that the laser is shooting. So the state rewind is done for each of the consecutive packets. And the damage is split up amongst them.

[WardenWolf]

Wow, this sounds like a lot of added server-side work! Kudos on the code work, but I hope we aren't looking at server instability and lower FPS tomorrow :/