9227 replies to this topic

[FoXabre]

Fabe, on 01 July 2012 - 08:15 AM, said:

I think Jade is just over Analyzing things, I can't really seeing a cast of characters with psychological issues in a cartoon intended for children no matter how many adults have come to watch and enjoy it.

Well actually the main point of kids shows is to portray some kind of message that will help them in their life. They'll learn that they can cope with or supersede their problems. The show is excellent for kids, and even adults can stand to learn a thing or too as well. I've only seen the first 3 or 4 episodes so I can't really enforce the characteristics of each pony as Jade Kitsune mentioned but from little I've seen it seems fairly acurate.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Twilight Sparkle's autism is connected to her obsession with adherence to the rules... a classic example of this is in "Look Before you Sleep." Where Twilight feels that the only way her sleepover will be successful is if it is done "By the book" quite literally in fact using the Sleep Over reference guide she owns.

Another example of this shows up in Lesson Zero, which shows how desperate she is for a problem to solve, she goes out of her way to MAKE a problem. This is common within Autistic persons.

I have discussed these matters at length with someone who graduated top of their class in Psychology, And Twilight Sparkle shows key elements of an Autistic person.

There is no such thing as Over analizing Fabe, if you're going to enjoy something you should look into why you enjoy it. For me it's how broken and realistic the characters can be. They stop feeling like your typical cartoon character Ala Sponge Bob, or Chowder, and have moved into something greater. These characters have realistic flaws and realistic issues,

It's an Intelligent show, and after the last 10 years of Sponge Bob and Chowder and shows that are purely random just for the sake of being random, it's a breath of fresh are to see a show like Friendship is Magic, where there's Continuity, [the creators have even mentioned that season 1 is aired out of continuity order] and character growth.

Fabe, on 01 July 2012 - 08:15 AM, said:

I think Jade is just over Analyzing things, I can't really seeing a cast of characters with psychological issues in a cartoon intended for children no matter how many adults have come to watch and enjoy it.

have you watched the show Fabe? seriously have you? because that comment almost SCREAMS that you haven't.

[Fabe]

I have watched the show,bu I guess I'm just not choosing to read too much into it, OK maybe you might have some points about Twilight but I not sure if they could apply to everypony on the show but I am still new having just joined the herd about a month ago.

[wanderer]

Spiralcrisis, on 01 July 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

Could you explain the Twilight Sparkle Autism connection? I watched a couple episodes to see what all the fuss is about and I'm not sure I see it.

Lesson Zero's a good example. She's so obsessed with getting SOMETHING to send out to the Princess, she cracks and starts MAKING problems to fix instead.

Sometimes, I think Celestia's not just the ruler, she's the therapist.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Ah... well I appologize again if I'm seeming a bit hostile, it can be difficult not to be a bit that way in regards to something you can be a bit passionate about.

Alright you know I may as well give a character breakdown.

Twilight we've already covered essentially... so let's move on to someone with even more issues, Rainbow Dash.

Ranibow Dash outside of being well, frankly a jerk to everypony, [yes even her friends AJ even calls her on it a couple of times.] Has built herself up on a podium of being "Awesome" she has to be awesome, she expects everyone to see her as awesome, This probably stems from being bullied as a kid [which we see a bit of in "Sonic Rainboom" ] Until she pulled off the Rainboom herself, she was constantly made fun of, she did her best to try to get better at flying "Rainbow Crash" being her nickname after all, it probably came from somewhere.

Many people look at the show and go "well, she is awesome." and well, I suppose in that "Frat boy" style of awesome, maybe, she's a bit obnoxious, she's always looking for approval of others, and is constantly touting how "Awesome" she is. even when she's doing nothing to prove it at the moment. Sure she can generally back herself up, but if you really want to see her issues come to the for front, look att he episodes "Sonic Rainboom" where she obviously is afraid of failure soo much, she pushes her preformance back to the end of the Flier's compitetion. And in "Mare do Well" where her entire self seems to be shattering when someone else steps in and starts saving the day.

There's also the fact that she's constantly putting Fluttershy down, and was cheating in her race against Applejack.

The odd thing about Rainbow Dash is that, she shares similar issues with Gilda the Griffon and The Great and Powerful Trixie... however Dash rarely get's called on or learns from her mistakes... where as Gilda and Trixie both had entire episodes to proving them wrong. When Dash suffers from the exact same issues. [Despite this, and while it may sound like I'm ragging hard on Dash, she's one of my favorites, she's also been stated to be the creator's favorite pony, so... that may be why she doesn't get called on her BS.]

Edited by Jade Kitsune, 01 July 2012 - 09:08 AM.

[Majorfatboy]

@ Jade:

I've seen the whole series, and I have to agree that you may be over analyzing things a bit. I mean, we've all made "Twilight has OCD!" jokes, but they were just that: jokes. I can't really say I've seen any of the personality traits/quirks you've stated. It is just a little kid's cartoon show, I don't think the writers had such ideas in mind for their characters when they wrote the scripts.
Pinkie doesn't have emotional issues any more then Buggs Bunny or Daffy Duck. She's supposed to be a bouncing-off-the-wall goofball. Any "Depressed" behavior she's had was usually part of the comedy routine. You know, going from one extreme to another. Same thing for the other characters.

And a lot of us do watch the show for the media references and funny pony antics. That's a huge part of why I like the show, it's very similar to the old Warner Bros cartoons like Animaniacs, or Freakazoid!, or Pinkie and the Brain, Etc. It's bright, it's funny, it's well written, it's just plain fun.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

wanderer, on 01 July 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

Lesson Zero's a good example. She's so obsessed with getting SOMETHING to send out to the Princess, she cracks and starts MAKING problems to fix instead.

Sometimes, I think Celestia's not just the ruler, she's the therapist.

And it's a pretty obvious one.

But let's not forget, Celestia's basically a bored goddess that pulls batman gambits with Twilight and I'd ALMOST venture she let out Discord just to test Twilight Sparkle.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Majorfatboy, on 01 July 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

@ Jade:

I've seen the whole series, and I have to agree that you may be over analyzing things a bit. I mean, we've all made "Twilight has OCD!" jokes, but they were just that: jokes. I can't really say I've seen any of the personality traits/quirks you've stated. It is just a little kid's cartoon show, I don't think the writers had such ideas in mind for their characters when they wrote the scripts.
Pinkie doesn't have emotional issues any more then Buggs Bunny or Daffy Duck. She's supposed to be a bouncing-off-the-wall goofball. Any "Depressed" behavior she's had was usually part of the comedy routine. You know, going from one extreme to another. Same thing for the other characters.

And a lot of us do watch the show for the media references and funny pony antics. That's a huge part of why I like the show, it's very similar to the old Warner Bros cartoons like Animaniacs, or Freakazoid!, or Pinkie and the Brain, Etc. It's bright, it's funny, it's well written, it's just plain fun.

Just because writer's didn't have these things in mind when they were writing the show, doesn't mean it's not THERE... Major.

To simply write it all off and go 'this is just a kids show' Is doing the show as a whole a disservice. To not look at the show and say "Well, there obviously X things going on because of X things as we see."

Are you aware there's only a 15% male population in Equestria based on what we've seen in the show? Are you aware that Princess Luna knew Starswirl the bearded personally? [hince how she knew that Twilight got the bells just right on her Starswirl costume for Nightmare Night.] It's little things, do you sometimes have to actually open your eyes, and your mind and look for them? Yes, yes you do, you have to pay attention and just not shut your brain off and go "Hurr Ponies." but why are you even watching anything if you're just not going to pay attention?

[Spiralcrisis]

Jade Kitsune, on 01 July 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

Twilight Sparkle's autism is connected to her obsession with adherence to the rules... a classic example of this is in "Look Before you Sleep." Where Twilight feels that the only way her sleepover will be successful is if it is done "By the book" quite literally in fact using the Sleep Over reference guide she owns.

Another example of this shows up in Lesson Zero, which shows how desperate she is for a problem to solve, she goes out of her way to MAKE a problem. This is common within Autistic persons.

I have discussed these matters at length with someone who graduated top of their class in Psychology, And Twilight Sparkle shows key elements of an Autistic person.

There is no such thing as Over analizing Fabe, if you're going to enjoy something you should look into why you enjoy it. For me it's how broken and realistic the characters can be. They stop feeling like your typical cartoon character Ala Sponge Bob, or Chowder, and have moved into something greater. These characters have realistic flaws and realistic issues,

It's an Intelligent show, and after the last 10 years of Sponge Bob and Chowder and shows that are purely random just for the sake of being random, it's a breath of fresh are to see a show like Friendship is Magic, where there's Continuity, [the creators have even mentioned that season 1 is aired out of continuity order] and character growth.



have you watched the show Fabe? seriously have you? because that comment almost SCREAMS that you haven't.

Thank you for the explanation.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

No problem Spiral.

[Sesambrot]

Jade Kitsune, on 01 July 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

..., if you're going to enjoy something you should look into why you enjoy it. ...

To be quite frank, but that's just your opinion...
Actually, I mostly agree with what you said so far, but why is it necessary for someone to analize something he likes?
I've read up on a few analizations, not only MLP but also the ME3 ending...
When seeing the ending of ME3 the first time for myself I thought it didn't feel right, but couldn't quite narrow it down, so I looked into a few analisations until I found one that actually explained why I felt the way, I felt about it. Wich was quite fascinating no doubt, but I did it, because it was something that I had a negative feeling about which I couldn't quite comprehend.

On the contrary, do I need to question why I'm happy? While I guess that turning a blind eye to the "why" behind your feelings makes you prone to manipulation, I think you can be aware of it without having to analize it to the point of characterisation.
I'm not saying you shouldn't do it if you like doing stuff like that, but stating that it's also important that anyone who likes the show does it seems hypocritical in the light of the show's message.

I've read quite a few fantasy novels, some of which I liked more and some of which I liked less. What I can tell you is, that with those favourite novels of mine, the characters felt very much alive and made me think of them as real people, while the ones I liked less usually lacked in that respect. It's pretty much the same with MLP or other TV-shows. MLP:FIM has some of the most believable characters I've seen in a cartoon thus far, and that's what makes me enjoy the show, and it's pretty much all I need to know, and I'm happy with that!

As for the Characterisations you bring up, Twi may want to do everything by the book, and is afraid of dissappointing others and maybe isn't that good with friendship, because she doesn't have too much experience... does that necessarily mean she's autistic?
Hell, I can relate to that! I can be pretty much the same, but I'm not autistic... it's just the result of my experiences, and I'm the person that was shaped due to those experiences. Maybe that makes me a little bit of an odd one, but pfft...

RD is afraid of failure when facing a tough challange... who isn't?

What I'm trying to say is: they all have flaws, but does that mean they all have psychological problems? I say no! It just means they are "alive", they are believable personalities...


I can see why one would try to use those analisations in a discussion with a non-brony to explain the fascination with the show, but to me that just feels like I was talking to one of my teachers trying to explain me that this stupid literature we had to read is so important because you can literally interpret and analize a metric fuckton of bullshit into it.
And at least to me, that's not the reason I like something!
For me, and probably most others out there I bet, that what makes us enjoy the show is, that it's something nice amidst that grey/grim world out there, and the characters inside of it are in fact believable individuals.

I say, replace the ponies with humans and you can actually make a fantasy novel out of some of the episodes! It's actually quite fascinating that a kidsshow has that kind of quality in writing, and I believe that if most people wheren't so bothered by the facts that it's a cartoon, it's for kids, and that there's ponies in it, they'd enjoy the story too!

But, do I need to know why exactly I enjoy it? No! Do I need to to justify to myself why I enjoy it? Nope! Do I need to justify that to someone else? .................



I think my post may sound a little hostile as well, and I appologise for that, but my point is that it shouldn't be necessary for someone who enjoys the show, or anything else for the matter to be able to exactly pinpoint the source of his enjoyment in that media.
Again, I'm actually quite fascinated by analisations like that, but IMO they really only have any value if you're discussing them with someone who's interessted in it in the first place. However, even if you get him to agree about the value of the show based on that, he is probably not going to like it the way most other people do, or even be able to understand them.
To everyone else however, those analisations will be mostly unimportant gibberish, which they will ignore, as you admitted yourself.


To conclude this post:
Analising the show and the characters may be very interessting if you're into that sort of thing, but it is not a duty of anyone!
Don't forget; love and tolerate!


OMFG, Wall of text!

Edited by Sesambrot, 01 July 2012 - 09:47 AM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

If I may counter, simply, if you do not analize why you like something, then you're just liking it to like it, if someone asks you "Why do you like this?" and your only answer is "because." It honestly makes you look like a tool. You have no basis to back up why you like said thing. It's the same as to why you hate something.

For instance, I hate Twilight[the sparkly vampire one]. I gave it a shot, alot of people loved it, so why not. I cannot stand the author's narration, I cannot stand that Bella constantly wines about how horrible her life is when she has friends that care about her and get's everything she wants. And I cannot stand that the author's warewolves are just shape changes and not actually warewolves.

I cannot base my dislike on the fact that vampires sparkle, as traditionally in vampire lore, Vampires are simply supposed to have something that reveals them to be a vampire when exposed to sunlight. [I do dislike this fact, though, simply because I was raised on vampires+sunlight=ashed vampire but it doesn't mean that what I grew up on is the proper mythology for vampires.] So now, if someone asks me why I dislike Twilight, I can give a properly detailed reason as to why. not "Because it SUCKS HURR!!!"

This is why you should analize the things you like, and even the things you dislike... because if you're going to defend your likes and dslikes, you'd better come with the ammo to properly defend your statements. Otherwise, quite frankly, from an argument standpoint, your point becomes invalid.

[Majorfatboy]

Tsk tsk, Jade. Several times in this and other threads I've said that one of the things I like about the show is the little things they throw in there. The attention to detail, not just in the art, but the dialog, writing, physical behavior, The whole enchilada. All you're doing at this point is pidgin-holing one of My posts into the "To dense to get it / just likes shiny things" slot, making Me sound like I'm a dope.

Just because I disagree with your assessment of the show, doesn't qualify Me for the, how did you put it? "Hurr poines" category. I also dislike it when folks try to take the works of others and assign their own statement/meaning/objective to it. It makes Me want to rage every time I see someone not joke, but insist RD is a lesbian. SHE'S A CARTOON HORSE! THERE IS NO SEXUALITY INVOLVED HERE! Well, except for the various god-awful things I've seen the "fans" draw and stick up on the net. I really need to stop using image search......

Just because someone thinks something is funny, does not mean they are devaluing said thing. I think Ghostbusters is funny. I also think it's exquisitely written, acted, directed, filmed, edited, Etc, and I'll still say "I like the series because it's funny". I think the Three Stooges are funny. I also think They're complete masterminds who didn't get the respect they deserved while they were still alive, but I'll still say "I think they're funny".

I like comedy. Especially well-made comedy. I do not like it when people decide to "Read between the lines" and see stuff that isn't there. It takes away from the creators intended purpose of their work. Just because it's a well made kids show, does not mean there are all these severe emotional flaws / head issues hidden in there. It just means the cartoon's creators actually put some effort into their work, and made a quality product, and not just crap out any old thing.

Given your assessment of MLP, I'd hate to hear what you think of characters like Buggs ,wakko, Curly, the Swat Kats, Etc. Bet it'd be pretty freaky.

[Watchit]

Hey guys, what's up with these walls of text in our pony thread! The answer is obvious!



problem solved!

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Bugs clearly has sexual deviency issues, or is possibly transgender.

To exclude sexuality as a whole from the equasion is to take away a key part of what motivates a person.

Also the "Hurr Ponies" thing wasn't specifically aimed at you Major.

As for the "Dash is a Lesbian" debate... there is more within the show to support this, as well as other lesbian pairings, than there are for heterosexual parings. Ontop of this, a society with a 15% male population, to expect there NOT to be same sex couplings is simply insane. However I was trying to keep things clean, and away from sexuality as a whole in these discussions as the show does not outright state that there is homosexuality, to conclude that there is none, despite the population split, just doesn't make sense.

I hate to break it to you but MLP:FiM is far from the 'loving and tollerating' ideal we wish it was, there's plenty of hate, flat out raceism, and bullying within the show to prove otherwise.

Yes it's a cartoon, but if you're going to think and discuss the show critically... everything that makes up a person, has to be considered... to exclude even one of those things... it's to cause a flaw in your debate.

But apon reviewing your information regarding these things... You DO think about the shows, you simply do not put forth the effort to defend your statement generally, and simply settle at "I like it because I do." And that's fine... but if you're going to critically debate with someone on their view of said show... you have to come at it form a similar perspective... if you're going to try to support that Dash isn't a lesbian, you have to bring to the table the reasons, beable to cite from episodes things that support your claim.

Because again, if you cannot do this, then it's similar to saying "The Earth is Flat because I say so." you've brought nothing to the table to prove why, just simply your statement that the Earth is Flat.

[Evedro Solais]

WARNING: Mature Lyrics; It should be SFW though.

Edited by Evedro Solais, 01 July 2012 - 11:17 AM.

[Stahlseele]

[Fl3tcher]

I asked my 7 year old daughter why she enjoys My Little Pony so much.

"Because it makes me smile" she answered.

All your arguments are invalid.

[Proxus571]

Well, it's about time I made my first post here...

I read through EVERY page and all I gotta say is, this thread is:



I am surprised no one has jumped on the opportunity to link this(release today!)

Edited by Proxus571, 01 July 2012 - 02:42 PM.

[wanderer]

Proxus571, on 01 July 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

I am surprised no one has jumped on the opportunity to link this(release today!)

That is an hour+ well spent.

Edit: No, I'm not kidding. An hour. Totally worth it, including the original animation at beginning and right before the credits (and there's one more bit after the credits that's nice, too). If you skip, you WILL miss something good. 5 and half stars out of five.

Edited by wanderer, 01 July 2012 - 06:52 PM.