15 replies to this topic

[Rybald]

I've read a lot of concerns on this forum about how mech selection will interact with the ELO system. e.g.

• Will ELO and weight matching combined make it harder to get matchs.
  
• Is pilot's ELO really the same in a Jenner as it is in an Atlas.

What if we give each mech variant an ELO score?





Assuming the ELO system works in a match containing 16 (or 24) pilots. Why not double the number of entities accounted for in the system. The ELO system tracks the 16 pilots and the 16 mech variants involved in the fight.

Given the high number of results a mech variant will receive the ELO score should be accurate fairly quickly.

Pros/cons.

• "OP" mechs, (A1s, ECM mechs) will develop high ELOs perhaps creating some balance.
  
• Effectively replicates the BV system using a system the Devs already have.
  
• New players in good mechs with gimped setups may suffer.
  
• May cause load out convergence as every pilot feels they must have the optimal setup for a given variant.
  
• Might encourage more diversity in 8 mans and hence creater participation in 8 mans.

Reasonable suggestion or am I on the crazy sauce?

[w00tzor]

Rybald, on 08 February 2013 - 08:19 PM, said:

I've read a lot of concerns on this forum about how mech selection will interact with the ELO system. e.g.

• Will ELO and weight matching combined make it harder to get matchs.
  
• Is pilot's ELO really the same in a Jenner as it is in an Atlas.

What if we give each mech variant an ELO score?






Assuming the ELO system works in a match containing 16 (or 24) pilots. Why not double the number of entities accounted for in the system. The ELO system tracks the 16 pilots and the 16 mech variants involved in the fight.

Given the high number of results a mech variant will receive the ELO score should be accurate fairly quickly.

Pros/cons.

• "OP" mechs, (A1s, ECM mechs) will develop high ELOs perhaps creating some balance.
  
• Effectively replicates the BV system using a system the Devs already have.
  
• New players in good mechs with gimped setups may suffer.
  
• May cause load out convergence as every pilot feels they must have the optimal setup for a given variant.
  
• Might encourage more diversity in 8 mans and hence creater participation in 8 mans.

Reasonable suggestion or am I on the crazy sauce?

Yeah, it's Elo, not ELO.

[RickySpanish]

Oh my goodness an orange chirping a yellow... followed by a blue pointing out how silly that is. All is almost right with the world!

[w00tzor]

RickySpanish, on 08 February 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

Oh my goodness an orange chirping a yellow... followed by a blue pointing out how silly that is. All is almost right with the world!

RickySpanish, on 08 February 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

Oh my goodness an orange chirping a yellow... followed by a blue pointing out how silly that is. All is almost right with the world!

Lmao.

[Brilig]

I'd be happy with a system that will limit the total tonnage for a drop. Let teams build themselves how they want, and let ELO do the rest.

[w00tzor]

http://en.wikipedia....o_rating_system

[Viper69]

Someone is trying to make a point I wont say who but he pops up every now and again to correct people. ELO ELO ELO who gives a rats *** if its ELO or Elo for god sakes.

[HurlockHolmes]

This would be a... interesting way to balance "certain" things to say the least. I wouldn't mind giving such a systen a whirl.

Though there may not be enough players for such a system to work really well.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

ELO is just a waste of time and resources. Yet something they will spend an insane amount of time to "FIX" when they could be working on new maps, meta games, mechs and more. ELO will be manipulated by clans to get better drops, PERIOD. Its just dumb.

[yashmack]

Viper69, on 08 February 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

Someone is trying to make a point I wont say who but he pops up every now and again to correct people. ELO ELO ELO who gives a rats *** if its ELO or Elo for god sakes.

now that I read the wiki article and see its named after someone I care now as well
its the proper spelling of someone's last name
wouldn't it drive you mad if the device you created and put your name on was spelled incorrectly all the time?
or maybe you're one of those that says your instead of you're...

[Thirdstar]

Rybald, on 08 February 2013 - 08:19 PM, said:

I've read a lot of concerns on this forum about how mech selection will interact with the ELO system. e.g.

• Will ELO and weight matching combined make it harder to get matchs.
  
• Is pilot's ELO really the same in a Jenner as it is in an Atlas.

What if we give each mech variant an ELO score?






Assuming the ELO system works in a match containing 16 (or 24) pilots. Why not double the number of entities accounted for in the system. The ELO system tracks the 16 pilots and the 16 mech variants involved in the fight.

Given the high number of results a mech variant will receive the ELO score should be accurate fairly quickly.

Pros/cons.

• "OP" mechs, (A1s, ECM mechs) will develop high ELOs perhaps creating some balance.
  
• Effectively replicates the BV system using a system the Devs already have.
  
• New players in good mechs with gimped setups may suffer.
  
• May cause load out convergence as every pilot feels they must have the optimal setup for a given variant.
  
• Might encourage more diversity in 8 mans and hence creater participation in 8 mans.

Reasonable suggestion or am I on the crazy sauce?

The issue with this idea is that the Elo score for each mech will have to be updated frequently. Every time applicable weapons are tweaked, the mechs themselves are given quirks,Heatsinks are adjusted, yadda yadda. You get what I'm saying I hope.

And that will have to be done by the Devs.

[Eddrick]

Rybald, on 08 February 2013 - 08:19 PM, said:

• Will ELO and weight matching combined make it harder to get matchs.

Adding filters to the matchmaker will add longer waits for matches. It can only work if there are a lot of people that fit into every catagory.

Rybald, on 08 February 2013 - 08:19 PM, said:

• Is pilot's ELO really the same in a Jenner as it is in an Atlas.

Depends on what Mech the person is best in.

Rybald, on 08 February 2013 - 08:19 PM, said:

What if we give each mech variant an ELO score?

Assuming the ELO system works in a match containing 16 (or 24) pilots. Why not double the number of entities accounted for in the system. The ELO system tracks the 16 pilots and the 16 mech variants involved in the fight.

Given the high number of results a mech variant will receive the ELO score should be accurate fairly quickly.

Pros/cons.

• "OP" mechs, (A1s, ECM mechs) will develop high ELOs perhaps creating some balance.
  
• Effectively replicates the BV system using a system the Devs already have.
  
• New players in good mechs with gimped setups may suffer.
  
• May cause load out convergence as every pilot feels they must have the optimal setup for a given variant.
  
• Might encourage more diversity in 8 mans and hence creater participation in 8 mans.

#1. High ELO would be likly. Create more balance? Not realy. Depends on if you call, a good player in a good Mech against an ok player in an OP Mech balanced.
#2. Works basicly the same. I wouldn't say, "Replaces BV'. It's just thier own version of it.
#3. To an extent.
#4. The ones most likly to do that are the ones doing it anyway. The rest use what they like or are good at.
#5. Encourage diversity? Dought it. Balance encourages diversity. But, only to an extent. The popular Mechs will always vastly outnumber the ones that are not.

Edited by Eddrick, 08 February 2013 - 10:37 PM.

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

Thirdstar, on 08 February 2013 - 10:05 PM, said:

The issue with this idea is that the Elo score for each mech will have to be updated frequently. Every time applicable weapons are tweaked, the mechs themselves are given quirks,Heatsinks are adjusted, yadda yadda. You get what I'm saying I hope.

And that will have to be done by the Devs.

No I don't think that is how it works. Elo is adjusted automatically based on how well a mech variant performs overall. Assuming that they have enough metrics, they could create Elo scores for mech variants that would change organically as play progresses. The real issue is that the system would be very punishing on non-cheesebuild pilots. If a variant lends itself to a particularly effective or popular build that allows it to do very well then everyone piloting that variant, even those running less effective builds will start to be matched against more skilled players than they otherwise would. I still really like the idea and have suggested it more than once, but there is a real downside to it as well

Edited by Redmond Spiderhammer, 08 February 2013 - 11:11 PM.

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

Eddrick, on 08 February 2013 - 10:36 PM, said:

#2. Works basicly the same. I wouldn't say, "Replaces BV'. It's just thier own version of it.

The good thing is it would be a BV that changes based on actual mech performance in battle rather than arbitrary numbers assigned based on how they think it should perform. I'd say that BV would be a pretty good indication of how much a mech contributes to player success, and with the amount of data to draw from it would get quite accurate quite quickly and self adjust to changes in game mechanics in a way that an assigned BV never could

[Teralitha]

What if one of the elo metrics for mwo was... how many weapon types you were carrying... so lets say your score is weighted more if your carrying all 3 weapon types on your mech and you win a match, but if your carryinf only 2 weapon types... or 1(boating) your score is weighted much lower..... So basically your score is more affected by diversity AND success.

A mech with no upgrades has its elo changes weighted more than one carrying full upgrades... another example.

I doubt however that their system will be this detailed.... if it was, it would be nearly impossible to manipulate it.

[Viper69]

yashmack, on 08 February 2013 - 09:59 PM, said:

now that I read the wiki article and see itsnamed after someone I care now as well
its the proper spelling of someone's last name
wouldn't it drive you mad if the device you created and put your name on was spelled incorrectly all the time?
or maybe you're one of those that says your instead of you're...

Appairently you're one of those type you said "its " instead of "it's". So make sure your glass house is free of stones or throw them outside first. Second it's being spelled the same it's when people throw periods inbetween the letters when it is not spelled correctly.

On topic though. There is so much variables you can add to the system. Individual weapons types could add a point value to a base point value of the mech. Essentially a more sophisticated BV system.

Edited by Viper69, 09 February 2013 - 05:32 AM.