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I Know, I Know; The Unseen Thing Has Been Done To Death.


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#21 Texugo87

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 02:28 PM

View PostDirePhoenix, on 09 February 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:


In short, the 2009 video of the MechWarrior "reboot" (as it was called back then) is not MWO. That was going to be a single player campaign game (set in the much more reasonable time period of 3015) with multiplayer added on (and in that sense probably not unlike every other MW game made to date).

The Warhammer shown in the video though was not the "Unseen" Warhammer. It was not a "Reseen" Warhammer. It was a new design (although it was still a Warhammer) made just for that demo video.

Also, just to put this out there again, ALL OF THE 'MECHS IN MWO are using new original art.

Pirahna does not have the rights to use the art in the Tech Readouts or any print book. Those belong to Topps (yes, the people that make trading cards).

There is no issue with the 'Mech names, stats, or lore. They still exist. The only thing that was ever in contention was the art used in the original 3025 Tech Readout and the earliest versions of the tabletop BattleTech.

That being said, since PGI has no rights to any of the TRO art past or present, and that they have to create new art for the 'mechs we have in MWO anyway (regardless of "unseen" status or not), there is no reason why they should not be able to come up with their own art/designs for these 'mechs, much like the MW:Reboot Warhammer.



Not 100% true. You can run into copyright issues where your work uses even small parts of someone else's work, resembles someone else's work, is in some way based on someone else's work, or even just evokes the idea of someone else's material (or personality for that matter).

FASA and their successors would have owned the name Warhammer, the story of the design, the stats, etc., but they licenced the artwork from another source. The new reseen artwork was intended to be original, and enough of a departure from the unseen artwork to not invoke any of the above issues.

I don't know if what you said about the other original TRO artwork and PGI's licence is correct, but I have a suspicion it is not. At the very least the Catapult, Atlas, Jenner, Dragon, Cataphract, and a few other designs probably aren't enough of a departure to avoid any copyright issues if the artwork wasn't included in their licensing. Particularly look at this image of the Cataphract: http://www.sarna.net..._Cataphract.jpg . On the other hand something like the Stalker might be different enough not to run into problems, though it's still a possibility. Now, FASA would have hired artists/studios to do the artwork of the non-unseen for them, meaning they are almost certainly the copyright holders, not the artists/studio.

With all that said the Cataphract is supposed to be a mashup of other mechparts, including the Unseen Marauder (the arm I think), the arm would likely not be considered unique enough to have copyright attached to it, so it's reproduction wouldn't be a problem.

Copyright and IP issues can be an extremely expensive nightmare, and the laws around them can vary between jurisdiction, or can be dictated by international agreements.

Edited by cjmurphy87, 09 February 2013 - 02:29 PM.


#22 Elkarlo

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 12:50 AM

First of all: Not PGI owns the rights but IGP.
IGP have bought the rights back from Microsoft to make Computergames Arts etc from the Battletech Universe. Then they made a deal with _all_ the Japanese owners of the Unseen Modells to reimplement them in the Computer Games. Then they went on to make a Reboot on Mechwarrior online and make the Mechwarrior 5/Mechwarrior reloaded title. Showing a Warhammer which was close to the
Macross/Robotech Mech.

Then came Golden Harmony and said: Yes you own the Macross rights for this Design but
NOT the Robotech Rights. You got the International rights, but WE got the American Rights,
so pay tons of Cash or you are not allowed to do anything haven the Macross Mechs inside
ups we mean the Robotech Mechs.

IGP the rights on the Battletech Franchise for making Movies and Computergames, and PGI uses this License and pay money to IGP for using it.

So getting my beloved Warhammer Ingame is very very unlikely.
A Battlemaster, Griffin, Wolverine etc is more likely, but after the Warhammer Desaster i think they will stay cautious about this theme, because it may end up in a Mess and atm MW:O can't afford having a Mech Introduced with 8 People working a Month on the Modell only to have a Order from court to have remove it, then 6 Month legal Battle and have it reintroduced.

Because every Owner on the US Rights might go out and try to sue them to get 200k or more USD out of their 20 year old rights. Thats the Danger with the Resseen/Unseen Mechs. The Movies Companies payed
in the 80/90s (not much) money for translating the Japanese Movies into US Market, and got the right of Distribution on the US Market for the Franchise.

I am living in Europe so my Suggestion:
Screw America and putt them on the non American Servers, give me as European the Warhammer on the European server. There you have the rights to do so ;)

Edited by Elkarlo, 10 February 2013 - 12:55 AM.


#23 Taizan

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 01:45 AM

The whole reseen / unseen thing is just a legal minefield I guess and sticking to the original FASA designs offers some safety against intellectual property / legal claims. The whole thing was mismanaged several years ago and I get it that IGP / PGI do not want to wade in those murky waters.

Games Workshop for example are very strict with handing out IP rights, not always to their best imo, but at least they keep it very tight, which makes their IP more approachable and reliable for game developers.

View PostElkarlo, on 10 February 2013 - 12:50 AM, said:

Screw America and putt them on the non American Servers, give me as European the Warhammer on the European server. There you have the rights to do so ;)

*Russ grabs his Parker and wildly scribbles in his moleskine* Possible account transfer incentive!!! ;)

#24 DirePhoenix

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 01:04 PM

View PostElkarlo, on 10 February 2013 - 12:50 AM, said:

First of all: Not PGI owns the rights but IGP.
IGP have bought the rights back from Microsoft to make Computergames Arts etc from the Battletech Universe. Then they made a deal with _all_ the Japanese owners of the Unseen Modells to reimplement them in the Computer Games. Then they went on to make a Reboot on Mechwarrior online and make the Mechwarrior 5/Mechwarrior reloaded title. Showing a Warhammer which was close to the
Macross/Robotech Mech.

Then came Golden Harmony and said: Yes you own the Macross rights for this Design but
NOT the Robotech Rights. You got the International rights, but WE got the American Rights,
so pay tons of Cash or you are not allowed to do anything haven the Macross Mechs inside
ups we mean the Robotech Mechs.

IGP the rights on the Battletech Franchise for making Movies and Computergames, and PGI uses this License and pay money to IGP for using it.

So getting my beloved Warhammer Ingame is very very unlikely.
A Battlemaster, Griffin, Wolverine etc is more likely, but after the Warhammer Desaster i think they will stay cautious about this theme, because it may end up in a Mess and atm MW:O can't afford having a Mech Introduced with 8 People working a Month on the Modell only to have a Order from court to have remove it, then 6 Month legal Battle and have it reintroduced.

Because every Owner on the US Rights might go out and try to sue them to get 200k or more USD out of their 20 year old rights. Thats the Danger with the Resseen/Unseen Mechs. The Movies Companies payed
in the 80/90s (not much) money for translating the Japanese Movies into US Market, and got the right of Distribution on the US Market for the Franchise.

I am living in Europe so my Suggestion:
Screw America and putt them on the non American Servers, give me as European the Warhammer on the European server. There you have the rights to do so ;)


Almost everything in here is wrong.
  • IGP is a publisher. All they do is distribute the software. An important process and key role, but they don't make this game.
  • PGI is the development studio. The artists, the creative directors, everyone working on MWO and responsible for how it looks, plays, "feels"... they work for PGI.
  • MechWarrior Tactics is another game from the BattleTech franchise being published by IGP. Their development studio is Roadhouse Interactive. The MWT staff work for Roadhouse, not IGP, and they don't have rights to any of MWO's art and vice-versa. EDIT: and yes, all of MWT's art has to be original and made exclusively for MWT also.
  • PGI (and IGP, and Roadhouse) are all based in Canada. Not the US. The servers are probably up there as well.

Edited by DirePhoenix, 10 February 2013 - 01:08 PM.






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