26 replies to this topic

[miscreant]

Corpse, JStek and I were discussing this:

What if PGI created a map maker kit for user submitted maps? They could give us the templates, which would limit size by setting game boundries, and it could include assests for the maps and the texture packs...

I think if the kit included all required items, the end-user community could help PGI produce quality maps that PGI would review and release.

Not every map would or could be used, but it would allow the community to have MANY more maps to play on, and PGI could focus on the micro mega-transactions like cockpit items and camo.

Granted, we don't have lobby and server browsers, and the maps we get to play on is determined by a virtual dice roll, but it would be SO nice to play on a wide variety of maps as opposed to the same maps over and over and over and over again...it could be a solution.

What do you think?

Edited by miscreant, 09 February 2013 - 06:13 PM.

[Elkarlo]

Was answered in ASK the Devs 31:

Quote

ElliottHD -Are there any plans to open up a "create a map" system for players. Maybe as a second program all together that has a suite or map building and editing tools. Then those user created maps could be uploaded to the server. You could just have a toggle next to the launch button to "Allow user created maps." Are there plans do "exotic" or "interstellar" maps? The current maps are places that could found on earth. How about some intergalactic variety. Something truely Alien. Once we can start and run official Merc Corps, is there a plan to allow members to share c-bills and mech parts? Maybe with a central Corp bank like EVE has? Will Corps have thier own rank/level? Will that rank/level effect the contracts the Corp can take on? Or effect other bonuses possibly?
A: Due to the complexity of designing maps, including the performance and balance requirements, we do not plan support user made levels. We are working towards more alien looking worlds with the upcoming new maps. At this time we are not able to discuss the details of CW, however, we are being very careful about player-to-player transfers, as it opens up the game to farming and cheating.

[miscreant]

Elkarlo, on 09 February 2013 - 06:33 PM, said:

Was answered in ASK the Devs 31:

Actually, what he was trying to say is "we have only made console games and we don't know what we're doing"

[Elkarlo]

Personally i would say:
PGI should allow using of the Art included in the MW:O Files.
We can use the Cryengine Dev Kit. but would need the Art used in MW:O for Buildings etc.
And then run a Competition.
With a Competition and i Price we will get about 100 Maps from the Community.
About 10-20 would be high standard Maps, and we would get 2-3 into the Game with a Player voting.

And then PGI would still need about 2 Weeks of work on the Maps to get Bugs fixed and smoothening for Performance etc.

Personally i say they should do an annual Map Compedition.
And give the Existing Artwork free for the Mapbuilding.
On the other Hand they are still trying to get their own Concept of Art on Map going
( or otherwise they won't need to rebuild the existing Maps all over again several Times)
So i can understand that they don't have any Plans for it.

Edit.:
And there maybe another Problem we don't think about it but... when creating Maps some Creators may make some big Issues for PGI. When i understand it correctly you can import 3DS Max Modells into a Map.
I know that there are 3DS Wireframe Modells of certain "Robotech Gundams" out there. When a Creator got creative putt in a Statue of a Robotech Tomahawk, guess what Golden Harmony would do?
So PGI needs to check every Artwork of a Map very closely.

Edited by Elkarlo, 09 February 2013 - 07:04 PM.

[miscreant]

It makes sense to allow the user base to create maps for review.

Obviously PGI is struggling with map creation.

I also think the reason we have a 'matchmaker' instead of a server browser is because PGI has mostly made only console titles in the past, the whole PC concept is new to them - which I attribute to the whole 'closed' system and no community map making support.

>

Edited by miscreant, 09 February 2013 - 07:20 PM.

[sC4r]

well i pretty much agree with OP

also the submitted maps could be reviewed by the devs for some ideas and if the map is well made could be placed into player matches

or at the very least if they are afraid that of some technical or balance problems the players may help by lets say:
devs release some theme which map will be focused on... lets say something like grand canyon then the players are to submit objects/textures/some other stuff

also pgi really should release some map kit... if anything take it like this:
there are peeps that can/want to help you with the game development that you DONT HAVE TO PAY

[OP8]

A console developer might not realize the value of user submitted content for a game like this. I've been a game mapper for almost every game I've played since Doom 1. I've done literally hundreds of professional quality maps for games like Quake2-3, Natural selection, Half life, Counterstrike, Company of heroes, plus many others and have had many of my works played on large scale clan competition servers in almost every genre of multiplayer gaming. I've given away 1000's of hours of work to all the games I've loved over the years and understand that I was only one of many who were just as passionate and generous with their creative talents. In the environment of MWO, there really should be a user submitted map infrastructure, but it would HAVE to be implemented in a regulated and overseen manner. The solution to this is to provide an editor with basic non user changeable prefab structures and environmental scenery tools, A flexible mesh terrain tool, and some template surface texture tools. They should just require that maps can only be added to servers after passing a "player quality assurance panel" of some kind. I taught myself how to build cinematic quality maps for Company of Heroes in an editor that was reasonably more complicated than MWO would require, and did it in a few weeks as entertainment; and was one of hundreds of fellow hardcore'ers that PGI should be seeing as the most valuable kind of passionate free labor; not overlooked with some dumb excuse that it's just too complicated for us common folk to make a high quality, balanced map. IF MWO deployed a public map templating toolkit of any kind, I could promise roughly 20 new unique maps in a year of comparable or exceeding quality to the content so far in the game. They should also ask a guy like me how to structure their editor functionality to ensure compatibility with the FTP business model. I understand some of the strategic concerns in that department and can suggest a few neat software tricks to ensure PGI's success if they decided to reap the rewards of user submitted content.

Edited by OP8, 09 February 2013 - 10:53 PM.

[Adridos]

miscreant, on 09 February 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

Actually, what he was trying to say is "we have only made console games and we don't know what we're doing"

You already have the tools [REDACTED].

Use them and prove them wrong. I agree with them on the sentiment that our community can't produce acceptable maps.

Should you produce a noteworthy map, that is balanced between the both sides, that is interesting to paly on, that is actually optimalised not to crash for every other player out there, or run at 2 FPS for low-end users, a map that is good enough to satisfy the community, then I'd imagine they would have no problem getting it into the game.

Simply, you're asking for tools you already have.

Edited by Helmer, 10 February 2013 - 01:21 AM.
Edited for content.

[miscreant]

Adridos, on 10 February 2013 - 12:12 AM, said:

You already have the tools [REDACTED].

Use them and prove them wrong. I agree with them on the sentiment that our community can't produce acceptable maps.

Should you produce a noteworthy map, that is balanced between the both sides, that is interesting to paly on, that is actually optimalised not to crash for every other player out there, or run at 2 FPS for low-end users, a map that is good enough to satisfy the community, then I'd imagine they would have no problem getting it into the game.

Simply, you're asking for tools you already have.

Mind = BLOWN.

I have the tools to do it?

Are you taking prescription medications?

Edited by Helmer, 10 February 2013 - 01:22 AM.
Edited for content.

[Elkarlo]

miscreant, on 10 February 2013 - 01:10 AM, said:

Mind = BLOWN.

I have the tools to do it?

Are you taking prescription medications?

Get yourself an Account here
http://www.mycryengine.com/
get the SDK.
import the MW:O Files, make Map
send it to PGI and hope that you don't get sued.

Edited by Elkarlo, 10 February 2013 - 01:27 AM.

[Adridos]

miscreant, on 10 February 2013 - 01:10 AM, said:

Mind = BLOWN.

I have the tools to do it?

Are you taking prescription medications?

As Elkarlo pointed out, the CryEngine 3 SDK is completely free and we can use the game assets.
Now's your time to stop talking and actually do things.


Oh, and sorry for the, you know what, but I can't stand people who are the direct opposite of people who actually know how things work, but still love to act like they do.

[miscreant]

Adridos, on 10 February 2013 - 01:32 AM, said:

As Elkarlo pointed out, the CryEngine 3 SDK is completely free and we can use the game assets.
Now's your time to stop talking and actually do things.


Oh, and sorry for the, you know what, but I can't stand people who are the direct opposite of people who actually know how things work, but still love to act like they do.

I never once acted like I knew how to make maps, nor did I ever say that I personally wanted to - who do you think you are? You think just because I thought it'd be a great idea for the community to help with map production that I would have that knowledge?

Did I say that I know how these 'things' work?

You should get a prescription for dementia and possibly find a girlfriend

Edited by miscreant, 10 February 2013 - 01:42 AM.

[Elkarlo]

miscreant, on 10 February 2013 - 01:38 AM, said:

I never once acted like I knew how to make maps, nor did I ever say that I personally wanted to - who do you think you are?

Then you should ask yourself:

To make a Good Map.

The Answer is as always:
Very

[Adridos]

miscreant, on 10 February 2013 - 01:38 AM, said:

I never once acted like I knew how to make maps, nor did I ever say that I personally wanted to - who do you think you are?

"Actually, what he was trying to say is "we have only made console games and we don't know what we're doing""

"I also think the reason we have a 'matchmaker' instead of a server browser is because PGI has mostly made only console titles in the past, the whole PC concept is new to them - which I attribute to the whole 'closed' system and no community map making support."

You're talking about things you know nothing about, making loose assumptions and proposing them as facts, leaving out the actual knowledge of the topic out of it.

For instance, you claim that PGI didn't make the server browser, becasue they don't know how to create it. The fact is that to create a server browser, you need a lot of, you quessed it, servers. Imagine how hard can it be when they have infrastracture that can hardly support 2 servers (NA and EU). And even if they got through that somehow, there would still be the problem those servers would be private and people could easily steal the code, alter it to their advantage and so on.

So, next time, when you want to give your opinion on something you know 0 about, you should rather bite your tounque and back away from it.

[miscreant]

Elkarlo, on 10 February 2013 - 01:42 AM, said:

Then you should ask yourself:

To make a Good Map.

The Answer is as always:
Very

So, you're agreeing that PGI doesn't have experienced game designers?

There are MANY that have map making experience, but if they make a map editor and provide assets to use, (ala Far Cry) then the whole community could produce more.

I am not a game developer, with that being said PGI must not have hired people with experience in game design. Odd that.

Adridos, on 10 February 2013 - 01:47 AM, said:

"Actually, what he was trying to say is "we have only made console games and we don't know what we're doing""

"I also think the reason we have a 'matchmaker' instead of a server browser is because PGI has mostly made only console titles in the past, the whole PC concept is new to them - which I attribute to the whole 'closed' system and no community map making support."

You're talking about things you know nothing about, making loose assumptions and proposing them as facts, leaving out the actual knowledge of the topic out of it.

For instance, you claim that PGI didn't make the server browser, becasue they don't know how to create it. The fact is that to create a server browser, you need a lot of, you quessed it, servers. Imagine how hard can it be when they have infrastracture that can hardly support 2 servers (NA and EU). And even if they got through that somehow, there would still be the problem those servers would be private and people could easily steal the code, alter it to their advantage and so on.

So, next time, when you want to give your opinion on something you know 0 about, you should rather bite your tounque and back away from it.

You're wrong, they could have multiple servers, and not made them private, and had a server browser...or at the very least they could allow the user to select and set the perimeters for each match.

Weird how you're wrong, isn't it?

Edited by miscreant, 10 February 2013 - 01:52 AM.

[Adridos]

miscreant, on 10 February 2013 - 01:49 AM, said:

You're wrong, they could have multiple servers, and not made them public, and had a server browser...or at the very least they could allow the user to select and set the perimeters for each match.

Weird how you're wrong, isn't it?

And how would they get those servers? We're talking about a lot of pretty powerful servers. They can't just swing a magic wand and everything appears.

[miscreant]

Adridos, on 10 February 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

And how would they get those servers? We're talking about a lot of pretty powerful servers. They can't just swing a magic wand and everything appears.

Ya, because they aren't making money nor do they know how to find them.

They have a publisher you know...a publisher who can finance those servers.

Why do I have to do all the logical thinking around here???? This community is HUGE, and most of us are older and have jobs and BUY MC. They have the money.

Edited by miscreant, 10 February 2013 - 02:00 AM.

[Elkarlo]

miscreant, on 10 February 2013 - 01:49 AM, said:

So, you're agreeing that PGI doesn't have experienced game designers?

There are MANY that have map making experience, but if they make a map editor and provide assets to use, (ala Far Cry) then the whole community could produce more.

One of the few things that is great in Duke Nukem Forever is the Level Design.
And they have already a Map Editor but you don't understand that this is not an old
fashioned Map Editor like in Unreal or Quake Engine or other Games were you putt only some square boxed items with neat Textures on it in the Map...

Here you can get Partial Cover by the very nice Structure around us, but on the other Part you can get Bugs and Clipping issues like in River City, were there are still two Buildings you can get stuck in.

So you need to test a Map very intensivly.

And Again THERE IS ALREADY A MAP EDITOR FOR MW:O
It's called Cryengine 3 SDK.
You only have to load the Props of MW:O and then you can start making Maps.

But it is very hard to do so as it is not the common "easy Mapbox" Mapeditor, due the Nature of Cryengine.
So it is very hard to make propper Maps in the Quality we already have.

Personally i say: PGi should allow us to use the MW:O Props to make Maps
and then hold out an Annual Map Competition.

As already said:
THERE IS ALREADY A MAP MAKER KIT OUT THERE.
And the reason why we don't have tons of Costum Made MW:O Maps on youtube is:
It is REALY HARD TO MAKE GOOD MAPS in Cryengine.

Edited by Elkarlo, 10 February 2013 - 02:07 AM.

[Fooooo]

Adridos, on 10 February 2013 - 01:32 AM, said:

As Elkarlo pointed out, the CryEngine 3 SDK is completely free and we can use the game assets.
Now's your time to stop talking and actually do things.


Oh, and sorry for the, you know what, but I can't stand people who are the direct opposite of people who actually know how things work, but still love to act like they do.

Wait wait wait.......

AFAIK we are most definitely not allowed to use their assets. They are made by PGI, and are the property of PGI. Hence without consent we cannot use them, else be possible legal action. (not that I think they would for someone who sent in a map with their assets there etc........)

As easy as it IS to use them, I have not seen a post stating that we are allowed to use them in the cryengine SDK. ( you cannot use crysis assets either unless you have a paid version of the SDK.......the non free one....which comes with them standard)


If this was the case I would be hard at work creating a few up to scratch maps, instead of flailing around in the dark......

Edited by Fooooo, 10 February 2013 - 05:13 AM.

[Elkarlo]

As i said: Hope that you don't get sued when you send in a Map with their Assets.

And that for making Maps we would need the Permission to use their Props.

But theoretically you can already make Maps for MW:O without paying money.