35 replies to this topic

[CHWarpath]

Prosperity Park, on 10 February 2013 - 08:11 PM, said:

The greatly negative and insulting tone of this thread is cause for Jettison.

The whole "press a button/no skill" argument always creates arguments that devolve into insults. ECM has not received any programming changes. The Gauss Rifle has received the property of Exploding that has been intended for deployment into the game, and has been public-knowledge for months now, and is perfectly in-line with the BT source rules (and it's ammo still doesn't explode).

Yes, volunteer Mussolini's I mean moderators typically use "tone" as a justification to shutdown proper expression and discussion.

armyof1, on 10 February 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

I guess we are playing different games, walking backwards doesn't help at all. Or you might have been fired upon by guys that can't even keep the target locked until the missiles hit.

I think PGI is too afraid to actually take back things that have showed themselves to ruin the game. Why not just remove SSRMs if they were way too easy to use?

If you are not seeing SSRM's and LRMS then you are not playing MWO.

Edited by CHWarpath, 10 February 2013 - 08:17 PM.

[Serapth]

CHWarpath, on 10 February 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

I click spectate in the rare cases I die early, and this community on average can't aim to save their life my dear boy.

Well, there are two things to be aware of here.

If you are pugging, there is a very good chance you are grouped with someone who has never played a MW game in their life and are struggling to come to terms with a very different control set than the typical FPS they are familiar with.

Second, and perhaps most importantly, when spectating, you are watching a replay of their game on your client. This means you are getting a double lag effect. Their moves are sent to the server, processed, then set to your client and processed. So, if they are lagging, and worse, they are lagging and you are lagging, you dont actually see what they do. It doesn't even take all that much lag, two people at 100ms lag time will result in what you see certainly not being what you get.

So dont really judge accuracy by what you see while spectating.

I'm not saying that everyone, or even, most people are good at aiming... but then, these people are probably equally bad a clicking on **** in Bejewelled...

[Serapth]

Mr Mantis, on 10 February 2013 - 08:11 PM, said:

Hey guys it is already hard enough to get my spotting assist . There needs to be a noob tube like item in each game, in this game it is LRMs. It makes players feel powerful without having to have a great deal of knowledge of the game and it's intricacies, although unlike the noob tube in most games LRMscan be used with great skill in a balanced build.

Actually, that would be ballistics, especially the gauss rifle.

It requires almost no knowledge, its a gun, you can shoot it near or far and if it hits, you do damage. done.

Missiles on the other hand actually do require knowledge of the game, to for example know that you have a 200m minimum firing distance... something the game DOESNT EVEN TELL YOU! Ditto that the max range is 1000m, and missiles will explode at 1001m, unlike a ballistic weapon that goes too far. Plus you need to understand targeting, get lock, etc...

So frankly, your post makes very little sense, as missiles probably require the most advance knowledge of the game of any weapon there is, with the possible exception of the PPC.


It aint rocket science of course, but given that the game explains none of this, if you arent from a BT background, it's all pretty effing arcane.

[armyof1]

CHWarpath, on 10 February 2013 - 08:14 PM, said:

If you are not seeing SSRM's and LRMS then you are not playing MWO.

It would help if they're not too easy to use, and in both cases weakening the ability for the missiles to turn would be all that needs to be done.

Edited by armyof1, 10 February 2013 - 08:18 PM.

[CHWarpath]

Serapth, on 10 February 2013 - 08:14 PM, said:

Well, there are two things to be aware of here.

If you are pugging, there is a very good chance you are grouped with someone who has never played a MW game in their life and are struggling to come to terms with a very different control set than the typical FPS they are familiar with.

Second, and perhaps most importantly, when spectating, you are watching a replay of their game on your client. This means you are getting a double lag effect. Their moves are sent to the server, processed, then set to your client and processed. So, if they are lagging, and worse, they are lagging and you are lagging, you dont actually see what they do. It doesn't even take all that much lag, two people at 100ms lag time will result in what you see certainly not being what you get.

So dont really judge accuracy by what you see while spectating.

I'm not saying that everyone, or even, most people are good at aiming... but then, these people are probably equally bad a clicking on **** in Bejewelled...

Pugging? Lets not try the elitist 8 vs 8 joke of a match. I have been apart of those too, and typically people just load all Atlas's, Stalkers, and one scout mech. 8 vs 8 is broken for now because it doesn't have a maximum weight limit and when it does many of these "elite" 8 vs 8 will wither way and die out after they can't muscle their way to vicotries any longer.

Serapth, on 10 February 2013 - 08:18 PM, said:

Actually, that would be ballistics, especially the gauss rifle.

It requires almost no knowledge, its a gun, you can shoot it near or far and if it hits, you do damage. done.

Missiles on the other hand actually do require knowledge of the game, to for example know that you have a 200m minimum firing distance... something the game DOESNT EVEN TELL YOU! Ditto that the max range is 1000m, and missiles will explode at 1001m, unlike a ballistic weapon that goes too far. Plus you need to understand targeting, get lock, etc...

So frankly, your post makes very little sense, as missiles probably require the most advance knowledge of the game of any weapon there is, with the possible exception of the PPC.


It aint rocket science of course, but given that the game explains none of this, if you arent from a BT background, it's all pretty effing arcane.

Not from a BT background? My dear boy I have played all of the mechwarriors, with mechwarrior 2 being the first one I played online. I find it intersting from 1995 to today, missile boats have ruined those games entirely for PVP but you keep on drinking that kool-aid. There is a reason mechwarrior has never been heard of and you are part of the problem not the solution. How is that for sense?

Edited by CHWarpath, 10 February 2013 - 08:21 PM.

[Serapth]

armyof1, on 10 February 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

I guess we are playing different games, walking backwards doesn't help at all. Or you might have been fired upon by guys that can't even keep the target locked until the missiles hit.

Well, no. See, I know if I get that "Incoming Missile" message, that I need to break target lock. I get out of line of site, and walk backward to get away from where the missiles default trajectory is.

Really, I only ever tend to get hit when I played tactically stupid and left myself exposed. If you are one of those players that likes running into the lake at River City without ECM cover ( or even then ), what can I say... missiles will be your bane, until you adjust your tactics.

Even then in a suitably fast mech, if you dont crawl you can generally get cover before a flight of missiles gets to you, once again making it your fault.

If on the other hand, you are in a lumbering slow mech, without ECM cover and get torn apart by missiles, well frankly, that's exactly how the game should work. Especially given the map design to date that always gives a route that makes avoiding missiles trivial.

[Deamhan]

[Serapth]

CHWarpath, on 10 February 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

Not from a BT background? My dear boy I have played all of the mechwarriors, with mechwarrior 2 being the first one I played online. I find it intersting from 1995 to today, missile boats have ruined those games entirely for PVP but you keep on drinking that kool-aid. There is a reason mechwarrior has never been heard of and you are part of the problem not the solution. How is that for sense?

You arent following along at home...

I am saying when you are spectating, in a f2p game to boot, don't expect that the person you are watching has any experience playing a MW game, like you or I ( or 90+% of this forum ) already do. The concept of a torso twist on top of an arm twist is completely alien for example.

So, when you are in a pug match and think "this guy cant aim for #$@#", realize that he, unlike you, has probably never played a prior Battletech game. On top, realize that this game does a @#$@$ job of training people.

[Willie Sauerland]

Prosperity Park, on 10 February 2013 - 08:11 PM, said:

The greatly negative and insulting tone of this thread is cause for Jettison.

The whole "press a button/no skill" argument always creates arguments that devolve into insults. ECM has not received any programming changes (other things have minor buffs against ECM). The Gauss Rifle has received the property of Exploding that has been intended for deployment into the game, and has been public-knowledge for months now, and is perfectly in-line with the BT source rules (and it's ammo still doesn't explode).

Ah, I was looking for this thread and will state I am not surprised it wound up here at all.

Though I am feeling quite ignored since the OP hasn't even seemed interested in my original questions...

http://mwomercs.com/...20#entry1873620

[Serapth]

armyof1, on 10 February 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

I think PGI is too afraid to actually take back things that have showed themselves to ruin the game. Why not just remove SSRMs if they were way too easy to use?

Frankly it isn't even that. To fix the streak cat all they needed to do was a) fix the single jump jet to get full JJ ability bug ( they did b ) remove any shake from a streak c) remove the smoke effect d) increase the scatter effect, so streaks hit arm/leg more often.

Those changes, many of which were eventually made, would have gotten rid of the streakcats.

Now the SRM6cats... that they wont be able to solve unless they implement an anti-boating system, which they refuse to do.


They sure as hell didn't need ECM.

Edited by Serapth, 10 February 2013 - 08:31 PM.

[CHWarpath]

Serapth, on 10 February 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

You arent following along at home...

I am saying when you are spectating, in a f2p game to boot, don't expect that the person you are watching has any experience playing a MW game, like you or I ( or 90+% of this forum ) already do. The concept of a torso twist on top of an arm twist is completely alien for example.

So, when you are in a pug match and think "this guy cant aim for #$@#", realize that he, unlike you, has probably never played a prior Battletech game. On top, realize that this game does a @#$@$ job of training people.

This absolutely makes zero sense. Let me help you out since you are apparently new to video games. The vast majority of video games are eye hand coordination based with a strategy element. MWO is not the first game to have you put a reticle on a taret and lead it for a kill. You are assuming that 90% have not played a mechwarrior game which is pretty bold considering the tiny community size for this game+ almost zero advertising. Even if 90% haven't played a "mechwarrior" game, many have played games with tanks, and that is what these mechs are, basically a tank with legs.

Willie Sauerland, on 10 February 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

Ah, I was looking for this thread and will state I am not surprised it wound up here at all.

Though I am feeling quite ignored since the OP hasn't even seemed interested in my original questions...

http://mwomercs.com/...20#entry1873620

Oh of course it was jettisoned, the little Mussolini moderators are watching you from their parents basement all of the time.

[Willie Sauerland]

CHWarpath, on 10 February 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

This absolutely makes zero sense. Let me help you out since you are apparently new to video games. The vast majority of video games are eye hand coordination based with a strategy element. MWO is not the first game to have you put a reticle on a taret and lead it for a kill. You are assuming that 90% have not played a mechwarrior game which is pretty bold considering the tiny community size for this game+ almost zero advertising. Even if 90% haven't played a "mechwarrior" game, many have played games with tanks, and that is what these mechs are, basically a tank with legs.

Let me help you out since you prefer ad hominem to real logic. The fact is, the player you are spectating could be new, be suffering from netcode issues, or could just be an all-around sucky pilot. Since you probably haven't played with this person before (otherwise, you would have already known how they rate), you have absolutely no way of knowing what the actual issues are.

But this won't stop you from pretending. Nope. You want to swing the nerf-bat of your reality because people aren't having fun right...

[Mr Mantis]

Serapth, on 10 February 2013 - 08:18 PM, said:

Actually, that would be ballistics, especially the gauss rifle.

with firing delay, bullet drop, and explosive tenancies? You have got to be kidding me . lrms=see target, lock on press button, reap rewards, repeat. They cover a huge amount of territory even if they have a fuse (also like the noob tube in other games ) it would be better if the range said 200-1000 but it is beta. I will admit they have become hit or miss after ecm but in general they are the simplest weapons to use while still giving a large damage output.

[Praehotec8]

Serapth, on 10 February 2013 - 08:18 PM, said:

Missiles on the other hand actually do require knowledge of the game, to for example know that you have a 200m minimum firing distance... something the game DOESNT EVEN TELL YOU! Ditto that the max range is 1000m, and missiles will explode at 1001m, unlike a ballistic weapon that goes too far. Plus you need to understand targeting, get lock, etc...

missiles probably require the most advance knowledge of the game of any weapon there is, with the possible exception of the PPC.


It aint rocket science of course, but given that the game explains none of this, if you arent from a BT background, it's all pretty effing arcane.

Great quote, very true, But...in a sense it IS rocket science! =P

[Watchit]

What's this? "x weapon doesn't require skill"?

[Bagheera]

Serapth, on 10 February 2013 - 08:18 PM, said:

Missiles on the other hand actually do require knowledge of the game, to for example know that you have a 200m minimum firing distance...

*ahem*

180m

http://mwomercs.com/...s-excel-inside/

Also; I'm not anti-LRM or anything, but you're not exactly demonstrating knowledge of the game's mechanics by trying to call auto-cannons the "newb weapon" of the game.

CHWarpath, on 10 February 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

... and that is what these mechs are, basically a tank with legs.

Edited by Bagheera, 10 February 2013 - 11:13 PM.