The Flamer - Why It Should Be Good.
#1
Posted 11 February 2013 - 05:11 AM
HOWEVER. The flamer should do one thing, even if it doesn't overheat an enemy mech: detonate their ammunition. Fire makes ammo explode, it's kind of how ballistics work (excluding the gauss). If I heat that portion of your mech to a certain point, it should get a higher and higher chance to detonate the ammunition in that portion.
Let's break it down to a way to actually make this viable. I propose ammo takes damage from the flamer despite any external armor. If the ammo is in a area with heat sinks, the flamer has to deal enough damage that would normally destroy that heat sink, then deals damage to the ammo. The flamer will however will not do any damage to external or internal armor, it will only damage ammunition and heat sinks.
You make the flamer, instead of generating heat on your mech, damage and destroy your heat sinks and ammunition. Double heat sinks have 50% more HP, because they absorb 50% more heat. Heat sinks in the engine have 20% more HP and cannot be destroyed, but only disabled. They enable as fast as they would dissipate the heat they would normally absorb. This will prevent you from preventing a mech from permanently useless unless you're actually standing there flaming them with a LOT of flamers.
Basically: If a player is flaming you, you dissipateheat substantially slower, instead of generating heat.
If a player is flaming you, and you have ammunition, you are liable to have some or all of your ammo destroyed, and take damage to your internals. The gauss would be immune to this, because it's ammo cannot explode.
If a player is flaming you, and you have lasers, you can still prevent overheating if you're good at managing your heat. The exception to this is if you've been flamed for an extended period of time (20+ seconds for one flamer, reduced for each one) and you have many heat sinks disabled. Potentially, if your heat is high enough and you've been flamed long enough, your heat should not dissipate.
If a player is flaming you, and you have double heat sinks, it takes 50% longer for the effects of the flamer to be visible. Unless it's a Hunchback with 9 flamers, then you're gonna be sitting around for a while while he turns off all your heat sinks, but can't kill you unless you have a lot of ammo in your torsos.
Please post comments. I'd love to see a dev response on if anything like this has been tested internally. My favorite way to play tabletop mechwarrior was as a jenner or fast light mech with flamers and small lasers, and disable larger mechs.
Thanks,
#2
Posted 11 February 2013 - 05:25 AM
At first the ammunition storrage.. it is even with the black hole magic - (moving AC 20 shells through the shoulder of the Centurion) - not acceptable that any heat hitting the armor of a Mech will cause a heat spike to its internals.
I may accept it when the armor is gone and the fire is burning in the guts of a Mech.
I can accept that the Flammer will disable all heatsinks in the location and both location next to this. you are pointing at.
If this location is the torso - only 50% of the reactor heatsinks may be effected.
- the flammer is acctual just venting heat/plasma from your fusion reactor - with the development of vehicular flammers or heavy flammers you should be able to get - inferno gel for your flammer resulting in a longer burn duration.
That will increase the efficencie of your flammer at all.
However to have a workable flammer - it must become more easy to shut down a Mech, or at least heat should cause more negative effects on your Mech (slower movement, problems to aim at a target etc.)
#3
Posted 11 February 2013 - 05:43 AM
#4
Posted 11 February 2013 - 06:00 AM
#5
Posted 11 February 2013 - 06:32 AM
#6
Posted 11 February 2013 - 06:36 AM
Edited by Bytemeister, 11 February 2013 - 06:37 AM.
#7
Posted 11 February 2013 - 06:50 AM
Edited by Stringburka, 11 February 2013 - 06:50 AM.
#8
Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:24 AM
No buff needed.
#9
Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:26 AM
Edited by General Taskeen, 11 February 2013 - 08:27 AM.
#11
Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:30 AM
CancR, on 11 February 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:
No buff needed.
No, they're not. They cause 3 times as much heat to the 'mech using them as the victim, they deal piddly damage and are just in general crappy. The only times you want to use them is when the opponent is already shut down, and in those cases instead of like 4 flamers (which is needed to be even noticeable) you could just have 4 Mlas and deal 20 damage.
They're crap, the dev's agree on that, and they are going to get a buff.
#12
Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:55 AM
Stringburka, on 11 February 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:
They're crap, the dev's agree on that, and they are going to get a buff.
So what you are telling me is everyone who never played battletech or any other mech warrior game think they need buffed.
Flamers do in fact keep mechs out of the game if used by a skill pilot (Which might be why so many people think they need buffing)
Flamers shouldn't be comparable to a ML or any other weapon, because it's not its job to be a killer weapon that destroys mechs, its a weapon that destroys mechs, its a weapon you take because you want to shut an enemy down.
#13
Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:43 AM
#14
Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:29 AM
CancR, on 11 February 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:
Uhm, no. I'm not telling you that. I'm telling you that flamers in THIS game is worse than nearly all other weapons by a wide margin - the only weapons they can compare to are machine guns, which also suck. I'd add SPL to the list but they're not crappy weapons as much as they're competing with MedLasses which are amazing weapons. MWO isn't battletech, MW4 isn't battletech nor MWO, and MWLL isn't MWO, battletech, or MW4. All the games work differently and have different balance, even though they're based on the same base rules.
CancR, on 11 February 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:
So show me the build you're using it with, then. Because they cause .2 heat per second, according to the info available, which means five of them give the opponents the same heat as them spamming a single medlas. Meanwhile they cause three times as much to the one using them.
CancR, on 11 February 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:
Unfortunately it takes more time to shut them down with flamers than to simply kill them, and if you kill them you get the bonus of them not getting up the second you release the trigger. Even if you smack on 5 flamers on a build you'll just give out enough heat to equal what a standard 250 engines, nothing added, cool down. So even with a 5-crit 5-hardpoint 5-ton investment you ain't going to keep anything down.
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