12 replies to this topic

[Hotthedd]

From what I can ascertain, light 'mechs were getting too much of a benefit from double heat sinks (3-second Jenner). Unfortunately the DHS nerf hit the assaults even harder than the lights.

Why not scale the DHS efficiencies per weight class?

Lights = as is (2x Engine, 1.4 outside)
Mediums = (2x Engine, 1.5 outside)
Heavies = (2x Engine, 1.6 outside)
Assaults = (2x Engine, 1.7 outside)

The thermodynamic differences could be attributed to surface area, for those that like a scientifical explanation.


Just a thought. I feel sorry for those assaults who WANT ERPPCs, but have to settle for LLasers.

Flame on.

[Mechteric]

while theoretically interesting, since heavier mechs tend to pack more weapons it just means they'll be even more deadly with crap tons of weapons. I don't think that's the direction you'd like to tip the scale since bigger mechs are already really powerful machines of death.

[Gaan Cathal]

CapperDeluxe, on 11 February 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

while theoretically interesting, since heavier mechs tend to pack more weapons it just means they'll be even more deadly with crap tons of weapons. I don't think that's the direction you'd like to tip the scale since bigger mechs are already really powerful machines of death.

This. Quad-PPC Stalkers that don't overheat are not a place this game needs to go.

[Hotthedd]

Gaan Cathal, on 11 February 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

This. Quad-PPC Stalkers that don't overheat are not a place this game needs to go.

You think 0.3 heat dissipation per external DHS will allow Quad PPC builds to not overheat?
If so, tweak the numbers so that the increment is .05 per weight class.

The point is that lights get the benefit of the DHS nerf more than assaults, and this was a suggestion to balance that.

[Gaan Cathal]

Hotthedd, on 11 February 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

You think 0.3 heat dissipation per external DHS will allow Quad PPC builds to not overheat?
If so, tweak the numbers so that the increment is .05 per weight class.

The point is that lights get the benefit of the DHS nerf more than assaults, and this was a suggestion to balance that.

Asymmetric balance. Assaults can't get instaganked by 4/6-PPC builds, Lights get a bit more benefit from DHS.

[Hotthedd]

Gaan Cathal, on 11 February 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

Asymmetric balance. Assaults can't get instaganked by 4/6-PPC builds, Lights get a bit more benefit from DHS.

Assaults can't circle strafe lights, Hit and Run, or force the enemy to break formation and send someone to deal with a base cap.
And Assaults CAN get instaganked by 4/6 PPC builds.

[focuspark]

Heat dissipation is more a measure of surface area and not volume or mass. Not sure an Atlas has more surface area / volume to make this make any sense.

Better to just allow larger mechs to "soak" more heat before shutting down. This would make overall dissipation even and fair, while allowing the bug mechs to get a little hotter but that might only be 2 extra PPC shots than a light mech can take.

[Hotthedd]

focuspark, on 11 February 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

Heat dissipation is more a measure of surface area and not volume or mass. Not sure an Atlas has more surface area / volume to make this make any sense.

Better to just allow larger mechs to "soak" more heat before shutting down. This would make overall dissipation even and fair, while allowing the bug mechs to get a little hotter but that might only be 2 extra PPC shots than a light mech can take.

I said surface area. Pretty sure the Atlas has more surface area than the commando. But the "soak" mechanic is a good enough scientficky explanation for me.

[focuspark]

Hotthedd, on 11 February 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

I said surface area. Pretty sure the Atlas has more surface area than the commando. But the "soak" mechanic is a good enough scientficky explanation for me.

Yeah but what I'm saying is the formula is surface area / volume and I'll bet the Commando has a better ratio.

So keep DHS at 1.4 regardless but allow Assaults to peak at 150% of the heat of Lights (or something like that).

[Gaan Cathal]

Hotthedd, on 11 February 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

Assaults can't circle strafe lights, Hit and Run, or force the enemy to break formation and send someone to deal with a base cap.
And Assaults CAN get instaganked by 4/6 PPC builds.

Lights can't mount a 90 damage alpha? And I did somewhat mean torso shots, which are rather easier to aim than headshots, lets face it.

The fact is, if we did have true DHS, then according to your theory Lights would still have an advantage, since their out-of-engine heatsinks would still be giving the same value as those on Assaults. As a result I'm not quite sure what (mathematically) you're trying to correct here. If there is something needing correction, then yeah - by all means correct.

And for the record I'm fairly sure that "3-second Atlas core" was debunked as impossible unless a lot of important non-DHS numbers were also changed.



Edit: Not that it matters, but the surface area of the mech wouldn't mean anything, it would be the surface area of the heat sinks. A larger heatsink on your CPU will improve temperature control, but the size of your computer case won't (aside from allowing space for bigger fans, which is analogus with tonnage).

Edited by Gaan Cathal, 11 February 2013 - 04:07 PM.

[Stringburka]

Size of computer case surely (indirectly) matters for cooling purposes, since it affects how much air can stream through (if you have fans). A spacious computer case will usually run cooler than a cramped one, though of course other factors also affect things.

If heatsinks work by distributing heat through the system to the surface to be cooled off, then both mass, volume and surface area would affect heat efficiency in different manners. That said, I don't particularly care for the OP's suggestion - I feel it's complicated already keeping track of all systems, and telling a new player "well double heat sinks aren't actually double heat sinks, they're 1.4 heat sinks, unless you put them in the engine then they're double" is enough explaining for something that should be simple and intuitive. Adding different efficiencies based on size just makes stuff to complex for such a minor balance adjustment.

[Hotthedd]

Gaan Cathal, on 11 February 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

Lights can't mount a 90 damage alpha? And I did somewhat mean torso shots, which are rather easier to aim than headshots, lets face it.

The fact is, if we did have true DHS, then according to your theory Lights would still have an advantage, since their out-of-engine heatsinks would still be giving the same value as those on Assaults. As a result I'm not quite sure what (mathematically) you're trying to correct here. If there is something needing correction, then yeah - by all means correct.

And for the record I'm fairly sure that "3-second Atlas core" was debunked as impossible unless a lot of important non-DHS numbers were also changed.



Edit: Not that it matters, but the surface area of the mech wouldn't mean anything, it would be the surface area of the heat sinks. A larger heatsink on your CPU will improve temperature control, but the size of your computer case won't (aside from allowing space for bigger fans, which is analogus with tonnage).

I did not bring up true DHS, but if we DID have true DHS, lights WOULD have an advantage. Just like they do with the current 2.0/1.4 model.

Lights have certain advantages over assaults and vice versa, there is no need to ADD to their advantage with the heat sink formula the way it is.

As far as surface area and cooling, you are assuming that ONLY heat sinks dissipate heat. This just isn't so. The entire 'mech heats up, so wherever there is surface area touching a cooler temperature (the exterior of the entire 'mech) there will be heat dissipation.

[Firewuff]

Lets not forget that Assults get bigger engines and proprortinally more heats sinks in them as well, so they already get a large heat dissipation that lights.