86 replies to this topic

[Megacromulent]

I decided to test if the zoom ability for Cryengine 3. Why? Because I want to know if it's possible to have a nice clear and powerful zoom using the current game engine.

If you look up "zoom" in the forum search, many people are upset that the advanced zoom is so lousy. These people get called names and are flamed for mentioning that they wasted time and money on the Advanced Zoom module. It's even been stated that the Cryengine 3 engine can't accomplish certain tasks regarding zooming. (I've even been called a liar on these forums over this)

So what is the truth? Can we have a perfectly working Cryengine 3 based zoom that shows more than we currently have?

The answer is yes, (proof below) so why don't we? My answer to this question is a guess that it's purely a game designers choice. Why? Because you can simply alter the value of one variable to accomplish zoom. It's technically trivial, and is already implemented. (read below about adding your own zoom to cryengine 3 games)

Is this about PIP (picture in picture)? No, this is about a standard zoom.

NOTES ON TESTS
Anyone can download the Cryengine 3 SDK and do these tests themselves.
http://www.crydev.ne...detail.php?id=4
Just load up the sandbox and click "Tools>Preferences>Viewport>General>FOV" and change the setting to a different number and click "ok".

Here's the proof:
This is about the default FOV of 65


And the rest of : 30,1 and 2




Does this work LIVE in the game? YES





In Game Testing
In game, (using the loader they provide in the SDK) press the tilde key (looks like this ~) and the in game console opens. Here you can enter commands. To change the FOV (field of view) enter:

cl_fov 30

Press enter and this will change the FOV to 30 (from the default of about 65).

Press the TILDE, and enter the command, it looks like this:


Program Your Own Zoom
In quake 3 games, you could literally open the console and key bind your own zoom keys. You can do the same with Cryengine 3.


By entering this into the console, you bind the 8 and 9 keys with your own custom zoom in/zoom out to whatever value you want.

(Press TILDE ~ to open console)
bind 9 cl_fov 30
bind 8 cl_fov 65

(note, resizing the images seemed to not work great... sorry if they are huge)

What does this all mean? I could add my own custom zoom right now to MWO, if the console was enabled and the game configs allowed modifying these settings.

Edited by Megachromulent, 11 February 2013 - 09:11 PM.

[Sug]

Zoom is lostech.

[Megacromulent]

Sug, on 11 February 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

Zoom is lostech.

You are just being silly, right?

[One Medic Army]

Don't know why the advanced zoom module is PIP instead of fullscreen, most people would prefer if it was fullscreen.
Yes, it's obvious that PIP is the cause of the issue, PGI hasn't changed adv zoom from being PIP.
Maybe they'll get around to it later, maybe they have a reason, maybe they hate you.

Edited by One Medic Army, 11 February 2013 - 09:32 PM.

[hammerreborn]

What does this prove? That if you keep zooming in using the normal zoom feature (like you know, going from x1, x2, x3 right now) it still works? Yea, they know that, hence the 3 level zoom we already have. Advanced zoom is PiP, which causes the issue, which you don't make work at all

[Megacromulent]

hammerreborn, on 11 February 2013 - 09:34 PM, said:

What does this prove? That if you keep zooming in using the normal zoom feature (like you know, going from x1, x2, x3 right now) it still works? Yea, they know that, hence the 3 level zoom we already have. Advanced zoom is PiP, which causes the issue, which you don't make work at all

You really did read what I wrote at all, did you?

[hammerreborn]

Megachromulent, on 11 February 2013 - 09:37 PM, said:

You really did read what I wrote at all, did you?

I did, so I wonder that even if you knew that PiP was the issue not normal zoom, why you even bothered at all.

[Megacromulent]

hammerreborn, on 11 February 2013 - 09:40 PM, said:

I did, so I wonder that even if you knew that PiP was the issue not normal zoom, why you even bothered at all.

Because of the many other forum posts on this issue. People specifically stating a further zoom was impossible. I suggested that the current PIP is based on resizing an image from default FOV, and if instead, it was rendered from 3x zoom, it would look better. Test it, if you are zoomed into 3x, and trigger adv zoom, it zooms back out to x1, and then renders a PIP of 1x zoom, only resized some, _not_ x3 zoom with enlarged view.

Also, I was personally attacked over the issue of being a programmer, and that the engine couldn't zoom past x3. Again, all from the forums, community members. No devs that I know of have stated anything, so we all are guessing. So I wanted to end the guessing, and for myself I have. We can have 4x zoom module that works, perfectly, right now, with _no_ extra programming besides turning on the in-game console (a simple config setting) and I could copy/paste the above code into it.

Edited by Megachromulent, 11 February 2013 - 09:49 PM.

[Vahnn]

I know PIP is the issue, and I know that the engine is plenty capable of allowing further zoom without degradation of image quality, so....

Why not just adjust the Advanced Zoom module to zoom in even further than the standard zoom, minus the PIP?

I have not been closely following the issue, or posts by devs concerning it, so I admittedly may be in the dark regarding any possible fixes/adjustments in the works.

[GrabbleRus]

Read again.
1) It's PiP zoom, not 4x zoom that isn't working as needed.
2) Fans of MW4 want PiP zoom.

[MischiefSC]

The problem is probably as much zots as anything.

You only have so many zots to spend. Zots being time/billable hours for coders, developers and testers.

Is it fixable? yeah, probably. Almost certainly in fact.

Personally I'd say fixing advanced zoom fits somewhere down the list from new maps and Elo, not to mention some new mechs and other updates.

Not to mention that it exacerbates the problems created by the existing pinpoint accuracy in game. Do we really think that easier headshots is exactly what the game needs right now?

[HurlockHolmes]

GrabbleRus, on 11 February 2013 - 09:52 PM, said:

Read again.
1) It's PiP zoom, not 4x zoom that isn't working as needed.
2) Fans of MW4 want PiP zoom.

I think most people would much rather a module be made useful and deviate from a old and arguably bad MechWarrior game than have the current advanced zoom function we have now.

[Megacromulent]

GrabbleRus, on 11 February 2013 - 09:52 PM, said:

1) It's PiP zoom, not 4x zoom that isn't working as needed.

1) It is NOT PIP zoom, it's "Advanced Zoom"

And it doesn't work properly, so why not give us at least a functioning zoom until it's fixed

GrabbleRus, on 11 February 2013 - 09:52 PM, said:

2) Fans of MW4 want PiP zoom.

This is a slight hypocrisy, as I want "override shutdown" to function from MW4, but some people do not... so it seems that's isn't a real argument anymore... (though I wish it was)

Edited by Megachromulent, 11 February 2013 - 10:04 PM.

[Megacromulent]

MischiefSC, on 11 February 2013 - 09:58 PM, said:

The problem is probably as much zots as anything.

You only have so many zots to spend. Zots being time/billable hours for coders, developers and testers.

Is it fixable? yeah, probably. Almost certainly in fact.

This is an invalid argument, I programmed my own zoom, and even pasted the code in my OP... go try it out.

MischiefSC, on 11 February 2013 - 09:58 PM, said:

Personally I'd say fixing advanced zoom fits somewhere down the list from new maps and Elo, not to mention some new mechs and other updates.

Sure, but it's _literally_ a few minute fix, I've already done it myself.

MischiefSC, on 11 February 2013 - 09:58 PM, said:

Not to mention that it exacerbates the problems created by the existing pinpoint accuracy in game. Do we really think that easier headshots is exactly what the game needs right now?

We won't know until we try it... the game still is in beta, right?

HurlockHolmes, on 11 February 2013 - 10:00 PM, said:

I think most people would much rather a module be made useful and deviate from a old and arguably bad MechWarrior game than have the current advanced zoom function we have now.

3 cheers for common sense.

[Steven Dixon]

Yes the problem with the engine is the 'advanced zoom' the PIP not the regular zoom, it was a design choice to limit the regular zoom. The devs have intentionally tried to limit sniping, they didn't claim otherwise. You might argue weather this is a good decision or not but they did have their reasons (mostly it was to fix problems that some of the earlier MW games had). The advanced zoom was created more for flavor than to be a 'must have', it is reminiscent of the MW3 zoom which many of us fondly remember. No module is supposed to be overly powerful to limit power creep.

Edited by Steven Dixon, 11 February 2013 - 10:06 PM.

[Mal]

Megachromulent, on 11 February 2013 - 10:00 PM, said:

1) It is NOT PIP zoom, it's "Advanced Zoom"

It may be called Advanced Zoom...but it IS PIP Zoom.

[MischiefSC]

Megachromulent, on 11 February 2013 - 10:04 PM, said:

This is an invalid argument, I programmed my own zoom, and even pasted the code in my OP... go try it out.


Sure, but it's _literally_ a few minute fix, I've already done it myself.


We won't know until we try it... the game still is in beta, right?



3 cheers for common sense.

I'll bow to your experience with coding. I'd still say that the issue of pinpoint accuracy at even more zoom is a valid one.

[Megacromulent]

Steven Dixon, on 11 February 2013 - 10:05 PM, said:

Yes the problem with the engine is the 'advanced zoom' the PIP not the regular zoom, it was a design choice to limit the regular zoom. The devs have intentionally tried to limit sniping, they didn't claim otherwise. You might argue weather this is a good decision or not but they did have their reasons (mostly it was to fix problems that some of the earlier MW games had). The advanced zoom was created more for flavor than to be a 'must have', it is reminiscent of the MW3 zoom which many of us fondly remember. No module is supposed to be overly powerful to limit power creep.

Again, please do a search through the forums. There is a _lot_ of confusion and arguments about zoom, and what the issues are. And it appears to all be from community members. I wanted to clarify what the issues are, and at least remove some of the imaginary obstacles.

If we applied more TT rules, it would be harder to hit certain spots of the mech anyways, regardless of zoom quality.

Mal, on 11 February 2013 - 10:09 PM, said:

It may be called Advanced Zoom...but it IS PIP Zoom.

But it can be "clear" right now for those that want it, until it's fixed properly. (beating a dead horse here) but I demonstrated a fix above.

[Mal]

Megachromulent, on 11 February 2013 - 10:13 PM, said:

But it can be "clear" right now for those that want it, until it's fixed properly. (beating a dead horse here) but I demonstrated a fix above.

I don't recall seeing a PIP Zoom in your screenshots, so, I'd argue that while you may have shown a work around, you didn't provide a fix. The Devs want PIP.. showing that zoom works outside of PIP (when the PIP is acknowledged to be the problem), doesn't fix PIP.

[Megacromulent]

MischiefSC, on 11 February 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

I'd still say that the issue of pinpoint accuracy at even more zoom is a valid one.

But then you appear to be arguing against _ever_ fixing the advanced zoom module...

Mal, on 11 February 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

I don't recall seeing a PIP Zoom in your screenshots, so, I'd argue that while you may have shown a work around, you didn't provide a fix. The Devs want PIP.. showing that zoom works outside of PIP (when the PIP is acknowledged to be the problem), doesn't fix PIP.

We can fix "Advanced Zoom" with my technique above. So that all the people that spent the time and money to aquire it can not feel they made a poor choice.

When the PIP is fixed, it can go back in. Again, a few minutes of work for the _many_ many_ people that have posted aggravation (sometimes extreme) at how crappy they adv. zoom is.