43 replies to this topic

[Zero Neutral]

PwnStars, on 12 February 2013 - 04:39 AM, said:

Hm, I can't remember ever losing my torsos before losing my arms, I'm pretty good at taking advantage of torso twisting. Though I suppose it doesn't hurt to prepare for the rare case I do. (But if I lose my entire left side, it's probably game anyways)

Also, I'd keep the AC20 ammo in the Head at least, as you're unlikely to die before you fire off 7 AC20 rounds, which frees up ammo explosions elsewhere and not losing large chunks of ammo if someone does decide to leg me.

If some one exposes your head structure, then they can explode the AC/20 ammo, killing you, without necessarily having done lethal damage to begin with. Since the ammo can fit in your left torso that has a C.A.S.E. I don't see a reason to risk it.

As an AS7, you will almost always lose your right torso, at minimum, each game you brawl in. If you lose your left torso, you are losing your SRM and your SRM ammo and only 1 ton of AC/20 ammo. You can still keep plugging away with AC/20 rounds.

Legging an AS7 with 57 armor on each leg is about as worthwhile as going straight for the front center torso. (Actually it is even slower.) You will not be legged as an AS7 unless some one is being cheeky for a last kill. By trying to leg an AS7, a player is just exposing themselves to a huge amount of damage incoming to them. At best they will get one leg and you will be victorious with healthy torsos.

Edited by Zero Neutral, 12 February 2013 - 04:57 AM.

[PwnStars]

KinLuu, on 12 February 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

Artemis SRMs are great if you are fighting slow and huge targets (Atlas/Awesome/Phract) at or near the end of the SRM engagement range.

Once the ranges get shorter, the advantage of Artemis gets smaller. At point blank there is no advantage.

If you are fighting fast and small targets, the smaller spread of the Artemis SRMs might even be a disadvantage (Shotgun effect).

As someone mentioned, tighter spread at even short ranges (but not pointblank) can still be useful to focus damage onto one component.

As for taking care of lights, I'd have to try that out with the Artemis, but usually one well placed alpha is enough to leg them.

So basically:

Pros:
1) Tighter spread, to hit far off targets (>100m)
2) Hitting smaller mechs (Such as cents) with higher accuracy, and focusing damage on larger mechs to take out vital components.
3) Conserves ammo and heat

Cons:
1) May make hitting lights a little harder, but since they have a small chasis, a well placed shot can do more damage. So it depends on your aim + latency I guess
2) The accuracy increase may not be as significant as it is made out to be
3) No use at pointblank
4) Takes more space and tonnage

Edited by PwnStars, 12 February 2013 - 04:47 AM.

[Codejack]

I have 2 A1 Catapults, one with artemis and one without. As far as I can tell, it has no effect on SRMs presently, and the only reason I don't remove it is because I don't want to have to pay to put i back on if they make it useful, later.

For now, I would skip it. You can always put it on later.

[ConnorSinclair]

Depends on the mech

Atlas and Catapult are fine without.

others with bad SRM placement need it.

[buttmonkey]

i allways use artemis except on lights where i need the extra tonnage, and if i only have 1xsrm on a mech

[Zero Neutral]

SRM6 and SRM4 with and without Artemis.



Did you honestly notice a difference that would make you sacrifice your engine and heat rating?

Some people seem to think that Artemis benefits SRM the most at high range, whereas the truth, as far as I can see, is that Artemis benefits SRM the most at ranges closer to 0 by improving the grouping of the missiles just after firing. At higher ranges the benefit of Artemis, for SRM usage, is almost nothing.

Also, take note of the 125m (3:09) SWEET SPOT, where regardless of having Artemis, all missiles converge on a single point.

Edited by Zero Neutral, 12 February 2013 - 05:19 AM.

[Braggart]

I would definately say Art is worth it on SRM after seeing those videos. That is way tighter grouping.

Dont figure its value based on 1 volley, but on the 2 dozen volleys you will fire total in a match.

[Murzao]

My quick rule of thumb. If you have 3 SRM6 racks, you need Artemis. If you are rolling with 2 racks, or SRM4s...then you probably don't. 4's don't spray as much as the 6's do.

I can wtfpwn any 6SRM6 Cat in my 3ASRM6 Cent just from strafing at 270ms and whoopin em from that range.....all my missiles hit, his does nothing.

SRM6s without Artemis are pretty useless out past 150m if you are trying to target one spot. It'll just spray damage everywhere in small quantities.

[HurlockHolmes]

Knobby, on 12 February 2013 - 04:24 AM, said:

I find that using 2xsrm4 + artemis on my Cent-AL actually lands more missiles on target than 2xsrm6 w/o artemis, or allows me to focus damage into specific parts of the mech.
I usually hit with all 8 missiles even at longer ranges of ~200-240m while at the same distance using srm6 w/o artemis i usually miss with 1/3 to 1/2 of the missiles. So at this range the difference is i either do the same damage while wasting less ammo, or i actually land more hits.
Now at this range the damage will be spread all over the enemy mech of course.
At shorter ranges however, srm4 + artemis actually allows you to focus that damage into two, or even a single, body part(s), raising the effective damage significantly.

Now this all comes down to personal preference and playstyle of course, and if you have trouble landing hits on fast mechs you may actually be helped by the large shotgun spread of the srm6 w/o artemis.
So at the end of the day the only real answer you will get is try it out for yourself

Sounds like we might have similar builds.

CN9-AL

[Zero Neutral]

If you really think that Artemis actually does some thing noticeable after watching that video, then I don't even...
Also, like I said, the benefit of Artemis is greater at short range, not close. Watch it again maybe? It's quite clear. I think if there is room for Artemis then, why not have it? Don't sacrifice heat or speed to equip it, though.

Edited by Zero Neutral, 12 February 2013 - 04:48 PM.

[ArmandTulsen]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: No.

[Rhent]

Artemis on SRM's greatly tighten the shot pattern at near ranges. A tighter shot pattern means that more of your missiles hit a single armor panel and do not spread. When using a SRM Cat, I can typically get two nice damage patterns on my targets torso. Without Artemis, the pattern will be a splatter from a little on their arms, a bit more focused on the torsos and a bit of a overlap in the CT.

So yes, Artemis is highly worth getting.

Edited by Rhent, 12 February 2013 - 04:49 PM.

[Zero Neutral]

Rhent, watch the video that I posted, are you sure that it's really worth making room for? SRM don't even benefit from the decreased lock time. For LRM it's a clear choice, but for SRM it's a clear pass.

[Deamhan]

I thought that with SRMs it tightened the grouping? If so then this could actually result in more missiles missing, it all depends on how well you aim. If you fire to only have the outer edge of your spread hit the enemy then a tighter group will cause you to miss. However if the enemy mech is more towards the center of your grouping, then this may cause those missiles that barely miss to hit. However, the enemy would be more towards max range for this to have the greatest effect.

[Kerrisis]

I wasn't a fan of Artemis on SRMs at first, until I sat down and did some proper testing. The damage increase on my 6xSRM6 Splatapult was surprising. What it did was increase my effective engagement rage from <50m to around 200m. Yes, you don't need them at point blank, but being able to do half decent damage *while you get to point blank* is what an Artemis does for SRM6's.

Having seen that test video I'm seriously temped to drop the launchers down to SRM4's. That is some nice concentrated damage right there!

[Zero Neutral]

Watch the video again, you will notice very little difference at high range when using SRM with or without Artemis.

[Rauchsauger]

I only have it in my mechs that I like to keep LRM capable.
So while my DDC has no Artemis since its my brawler build my 5M has Artemis because sometime I configure it to LRM boat.

[Kerrisis]

Zero Neutral, on 13 February 2013 - 02:39 AM, said:

Watch the video again, you will notice very little difference at high range when using SRM with or without Artemis.

I have watched it. What you see as insignificant I see as "quadruples the usable range of my weapons". This is what I've noticed in actual gameplay on both my splatapult and brawler DDC, too.
Are you angling to start a campaign to buff Artemis effects on SRMs or something?

[The Mech behind you]

I made the same observations like Zero Neutral. ASRM is very deadly at close ranges. I don't see any big advantages at >150m. While my COM-3A has 2 SRM6 Launchers without Artemis and my Medium Mechs with 2 SRM Launchers use Artemis I could observe that a dual SRM6 volley without Artemis spreads all over the mech even at close ranges like 50-80m. A dual ASRM6 hits very precisely at close ranges. I even manage to hit a single torso area on an Atlas with it.

[jakucha]

It isn't for the 4sp I use. I'd have to make my engine into a slower rated one and remove two tons of SRM ammo to make it fit.

Edited by jakucha, 13 February 2013 - 03:21 AM.