22 replies to this topic

[Garrath]

Suggestion:

Dramatically increase LRM travel speed, 2-4x current values.



Reasons:

Since ECM (ECM+Stealth Armor+Group Invisibility+...) was introduced for no actual cost I'd like to suggest the above modification to the core weapon system ECM affects. What this does is allow LRMs to be more effectively used as a dumb fire platform. The current travel time, as everyone knows makes this virtually impossible except against afk/dc mechs.

If, perhaps, you think that LRMs weren't really designed to be used that way, well guess what, neither was ECM.


Other points to consider:

-Some mechs can travel as fast/faster than missiles...if you think it's appropriate that a land based walking mech can move faster than a military missile....yeah, enough said.

-The tonnage/crits involved in equpping a functional missile system is huge, to virtually nullify it over a large area...1.5t. The weapon system should always have SOME functionality (in the real game nothing prevents it's operation).

-Will add a more skill-based use to the weapon


(edited for clarification, thanks)

Edited by Garrath, 14 February 2013 - 12:20 PM.

[focuspark]

+1 agreed with one change, LRM lose their target tracking but instead fly to the location of the target they were fired at when launched. 500 m/s seems fair.

[Codejack]

focuspark, on 14 February 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

+1 agreed with one change, LRM lose their target tracking but instead fly to the location of the target they were fired at when launched. 500 m/s seems fair.

He said increase travel time, that would make them slower....

[focuspark]

Codejack, on 14 February 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

He said increase travel time, that would make them slower....

Yes, but even you know he means reduce travel times by a factor of 2-4x. Nobody says "they're too slow, make them slower as a fix".

[blinkin]

i think this would bring back the lrm a bit. currently they are almost entirely gone from the game.

although with this AMS would either have to kill missiles faster or reach further than it does. i vote for killing missiles faster.

focuspark, on 14 February 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

Yes, but even you know he means reduce travel times by a factor of 2-4x. Nobody says "they're too slow, make them slower as a fix".

i see what you are saying but once lock is lost it is easy for me to dodge missiles even in my atlas. i think making the missiles completely dumb (defined as not having any guidance) in flight would make them useless against all but the most ignorant players. even with a massive speed boost they would only reliably hit assault mechs that started out stationary and needed to accelerate.

Edited by blinkin, 14 February 2013 - 12:16 PM.

[Garrath]

A very good point there, AMS efficiency would need to be increased to compensate for the speed buff.

[focuspark]

blinkin, on 14 February 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

i see what you are saying but once lock is lost it is easy for me to dodge missiles even in my atlas. i think making the missiles completely dumb (defined as not having any guidance) in flight would make them useless against all but the most ignorant players. even with a massive speed boost they would only reliably hit assault mechs that started out stationary and needed to accelerate.

Only at long range... even then, if the incoming missile warning were removed you wouldn't know to dodge until they dropped on your heat. Also, if they moved 500 m/s you'd have up to a maximum of 2 seconds to realize the missiles are coming and move.

Remember, LRM are supposed to be as inaccurate at long range as an AC/2.

Garrath, on 14 February 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

A very good point there, AMS efficiency would need to be increased to compensate for the speed buff.

I thought AMS just shot down a limited number of missiles, regardless of any actually physics. Using actualy physics seems... computationally expensive to me. My guess is that AMS just randomly destroys 2-5 LRM and 0-2 SRM per volley (or some similar number).

[blinkin]

focuspark, on 14 February 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

Only at long range... even then, if the incoming missile warning were removed you wouldn't know to dodge until they dropped on your heat. Also, if they moved 500 m/s you'd have up to a maximum of 2 seconds to realize the missiles are coming and move.

Remember, LRM are supposed to be as inaccurate at long range as an AC/2.

ok so you are also advocating removing the warning then. that makes a bit more sense.

on a side note when indirect fired i think lrm use the accuracy of the spotter mech in TT.

[focuspark]

blinkin, on 14 February 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

on a side note when indirect fired i think lrm use the accuracy of the spotter mech in TT.

If I remember this right, and I might not, only if both are members of the same C3 network.

blinkin, on 14 February 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

ok so you are also advocating removing the warning then. that makes a bit more sense.

Yes, mostly because SRM don't warn you and with faster missiles by the time you got the signal from the server they were incoming you'd have too little time to do squat anyways.

[blinkin]

focuspark, on 14 February 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

If I remember this right, and I might not, only if both are members of the same C3 network.

you are probably right. my memmory on the subject is hazy at best.

i think it would be a good idea to add the missile warning when the AMS starts firing. just enough warning that pilots in fast mechs that are paying attention can take action.

Edited by blinkin, 14 February 2013 - 12:47 PM.

[Codejack]

focuspark, on 14 February 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

Yes, but even you know he means reduce travel times by a factor of 2-4x. Nobody says "they're too slow, make them slower as a fix".

Well, people say ECM is fine, so there are crazier people out there.

[Corvus Antaka]

flight time is plenty fast

[Donas]

focuspark, on 14 February 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

Only at long range... even then, if the incoming missile warning were removed you wouldn't know to dodge until they dropped on your heat. Also, if they moved 500 m/s you'd have up to a maximum of 2 seconds to realize the missiles are coming and move.

Interesting. I'd think that any dumbfired missile should prevent the missile warning from playing, if the logic behind the warning is that something in your mech is sensing the missile lock, and not computing the trajectories of individual missiles in real time. And that makes sense, since sensors in MWO can barely pick up an entire mech at range, even without ECM protection and having a clear LOS, I wouldnt think that these sensors are suddenly capable of picking up something as teeny and fast as a missile and computing its trajectory (especially given how much they Oscillate on route to the target)

Edited by Donas, 14 February 2013 - 06:29 PM.

[Volthorne]

blinkin, on 14 February 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

you are probably right. my memmory on the subject is hazy at best.

i think it would be a good idea to add the missile warning when the AMS starts firing. just enough warning that pilots in fast mechs that are paying attention can take action.

... Check my sig, skip to p.85.

[blinkin]

Volthorne, on 14 February 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

... Check my sig, skip to p.85.

ok so only terrain modifiers come from the spotter. the range is still based on the mech firing the lrm.

[Volthorne]

blinkin, on 15 February 2013 - 12:09 AM, said:

ok so only terrain modifiers come from the spotter. the range is still based on the mech firing the lrm.

Yes, and C3 changes it to the spotters distance.

[focuspark]

Volthorne, on 15 February 2013 - 12:56 AM, said:

Yes, and C3 changes it to the spotters distance.

Which is, unfortunately, nearly impossible to replicate in a FPS setting... at least in any way that I can conceive Luckily, there the world is full of people who are smarter than me, we just need to hope that they're MW:O fans.

[Golfin Man]

If you say LRMs are gone from the game, then I would accuse you of not actually having played more than a match or two in the past few months. I understand the idea, but if you're gonna improve LRMs let's just go all the way with it. LRMs should do 80,000 damage over a 100mx100m area the instant the fire button is clicked. They should also be headseaking and should be able to phase through hills and buildings. Finally if you are killed by LRMs it should delete your account and crash your computer.
Trololo
While we're at it buff streaks some more. The first missile in any group is sentient, and is capable of actively drilling a hole directly into your engine. The rest follow directly into this tunnel and do enough damage (each) to core you ten times over. The launcher itself now weighs nothing, can be mounted in any hardpoint, and has infinite ammo. Finally, if you are killed by streaks, a streak missile will fire out of your computer screen blowing your ******** head to bits.

Edited by Golfin Man, 15 February 2013 - 07:23 AM.

[focuspark]

Golfin Man, on 15 February 2013 - 07:16 AM, said:

If you say LRMs are gone from the game, then I would accuse you of not actually having played more than a match or two in the past few months. I understand the idea, but if you're gonna improve LRMs let's just go all the way with it. LRMs should do 80,000 damage over a 100mx100m area the instant the fire button is clicked. They should also be headseaking and should be able to phase through hills and buildings. Finally if you are killed by LRMs it should delete your account and crash your computer.
Trololo

Nice straw man argument. Not helpful or constructive. Thread's exit is that way. Thanks for coming.

[ChaosGrinder]

blinkin, on 14 February 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

ok so you are also advocating removing the warning then. that makes a bit more sense.

You shouldn´t get a warning when your ams can´t see the missiles. If it can lock onto missiles, you should get a warning : Missile fire detected. Regardless if it´s actually you or your buddy.