29 replies to this topic

[darkthought]

focuspark, on 13 February 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

... but the ECM + SSRM OP issue is that they can put ECM into ECCM mode and use their streaks only when they want to.

Switching to ECCM mode also allows LRMs to track down on you, and others to see you via my target lock. Alternatively, Streaks fired within ANY ECM bubble (disrupt or counter) could have a 50% miss rate. All this barely understood Lostech is causing problem with the flux capacitor... or something.

[focuspark]

darkthought, on 13 February 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

Switching to ECCM mode also allows LRMs to track down on you, and others to see you via my target lock. Alternatively, Streaks fired within ANY ECM bubble (disrupt or counter) could have a 50% miss rate. All this barely understood Lostech is causing problem with the flux capacitor... or something.

Not when run in pairs, which is how Raven flock these days.

[darkthought]

focuspark, on 13 February 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

Not when run in pairs, which is how Raven flock these days.

Which is why ANY ECM field should screw up Streak tracking. So an Unkindness of Ravens still only has 50% hit rate when they fire, regardless of ECM mode.

[focuspark]

darkthought, on 13 February 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

Which is why ANY ECM field should screw up Streak tracking. So an Unkindness of Ravens still only has 50% hit rate when they fire, regardless of ECM mode.

Makes sense... OR ECM just shouldn't impact SSRM at all.

[darkthought]

focuspark, on 13 February 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

Makes sense... OR ECM just shouldn't impact SSRM at all.

No. We'd see stupid amounts of Streak Cats again, which were un-fun for everybody else. A better solution would be bad things happen to Streaks around ECM. The difference is nerfing a single weapon system, as opposed to nerfing a whole class of mechs.

Disclaimer, I pilot a COM-2D with 3 streak launchers. They are stupidly overpowered with ECM. (Frankly, they're stupidly overpowered, period. If they don't change something, it will only get worse when we start getting Streak SRM6's from the clans.)

[MrGigglez]

How about just lowering their velocity?

Seems to me the biggest problem with streaks is how easily they wreck light mechs (sure you can kill mediums with them but you'd be much better off using... well most other weapons).

Most of the nerfs mentioned here would affect streak performance against all mechs.

By lowering their velocity they would lose quite a lot of effective range against light mechs. And it could make it possible for lights such as the spider or jenner to stay at say 200-ish meters* and poke away with medium lasers when facing mechs like the commando 2D.

Streaks would also be harder to use in environments with a lot of obstacles as you'd need to account for the flight path when chasing a fast mech, whereas now streaks are almost an instant hit so you rarely need to worry about that.

Streaks would still deter lights from coming in too close and remain a 'sort of' always-hit weapon but lights could deal with them with a bit (or a lot) of skill.

* assuming that they went fast enough to cover 70-ish meters during the missiles flight time

[darkthought]

MrGigglez, on 14 February 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

How about just lowering their velocity?

Seems to me the biggest problem with streaks is how easily they wreck light mechs (sure you can kill mediums with them but you'd be much better off using... well most other weapons).

Most of the nerfs mentioned here would affect streak performance against all mechs.

By lowering their velocity they would lose quite a lot of effective range against light mechs. And it could make it possible for lights such as the spider or jenner to stay at say 200-ish meters* and poke away with medium lasers when facing mechs like the commando 2D.

Streaks would also be harder to use in environments with a lot of obstacles as you'd need to account for the flight path when chasing a fast mech, whereas now streaks are almost an instant hit so you rarely need to worry about that.

Streaks would still deter lights from coming in too close and remain a 'sort of' always-hit weapon but lights could deal with them with a bit (or a lot) of skill.

* assuming that they went fast enough to cover 70-ish meters during the missiles flight time

I'd actually like to see if this would work. +1.

[blinkin]

MrGigglez, on 14 February 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

How about just lowering their velocity?

Seems to me the biggest problem with streaks is how easily they wreck light mechs (sure you can kill mediums with them but you'd be much better off using... well most other weapons).

Most of the nerfs mentioned here would affect streak performance against all mechs.

By lowering their velocity they would lose quite a lot of effective range against light mechs. And it could make it possible for lights such as the spider or jenner to stay at say 200-ish meters* and poke away with medium lasers when facing mechs like the commando 2D.

Streaks would also be harder to use in environments with a lot of obstacles as you'd need to account for the flight path when chasing a fast mech, whereas now streaks are almost an instant hit so you rarely need to worry about that.

Streaks would still deter lights from coming in too close and remain a 'sort of' always-hit weapon but lights could deal with them with a bit (or a lot) of skill.

* assuming that they went fast enough to cover 70-ish meters during the missiles flight time

we had slow streaks for a while in closed beta. all of the missiles were sped up because they could never catch up to most light mechs.

already tested. already failed.

[focuspark]

darkthought, on 14 February 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

No. We'd see stupid amounts of Streak Cats again, which were un-fun for everybody else. A better solution would be bad things happen to Streaks around ECM. The difference is nerfing a single weapon system, as opposed to nerfing a whole class of mechs.

Disclaimer, I pilot a COM-2D with 3 streak launchers. They are stupidly overpowered with ECM. (Frankly, they're stupidly overpowered, period. If they don't change something, it will only get worse when we start getting Streak SRM6's from the clans.)

Yeah - having not seen my other posts you probably didn't realize that I believe ECM shouldn't impact SSRM because SSRM should not have a 100% lock on ability (same for LRM IMO).

[blinkin]

focuspark, on 14 February 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

Yeah - having not seen my other posts you probably didn't realize that I believe ECM shouldn't impact SSRM because SSRM should not have a 100% lock on ability (same for LRM IMO).

it is a common issue on forums. we look at single components when we should be looking at the system as a whole. if there were no missiles in game ECM likely would not be worth the tonnage, so it is stupid to look at just missiles or just ECM.

i have made suggestions that focus on a single component modification, but i also make an effort to consider how other components or game mechanics interact with it as well.