17 replies to this topic

[darkthought]

Here's the loadout:

DRG-1C

The basic idea is that I can peek over ridges and give a double shot of PPC to someone, then back down once the return fire begins. The AC/2 is to support this role as well, but it doesn't have the pure oompf of a dual PPC hit. The AC/2 is also to be used with the 2 Mlas in closer engagements, as well as the ER PPCs, as heat allows.

I have no problem reducing the ER PPCs down to PPCs, and just not use them in close up brawls, which is not the purpose of this loadout.

Thoughts?

[Xenon Codex]

Looks pretty good for the role you are wanting to play. Just be careful of convergence issues, you'll need to give the PPC's a bit of time to adjust to the long range after topping a hill.

I would consider dropping the AC/2 and ML's in favor of an ER LL and more heatsinks (or bigger engine for quicker response time). Just got to take it out and see how it works.

[Ryebear]

The AC 2 runs really hot. I'd switch it out for an AC/5 and regular PPCs then drop 2 heatsinks.

[darkthought]

Thanks for the input, I'll give these a try.

[Khris Kruel]

First of all, get rid of the DHS...SHS is far superior in slots and weight. With the role that you are providing in the mechs you don't need to worry about heat at all, and with your speed and situational awareness no one is going to sneak up on you.

With those extra slots that the SHS provides you can put some LRM/5's on, especially in the arms and torso. This will give you a little more punch and able to shoot when you're not peaking over the ridge. I've got a 3-1 win/loss ratio simply because of this philosophy.

Always remember you are speedy and can get out of any engagements you don't like

also dial back some of the armor to get the weight right...speed is your friend, and armor you don't need if you get speed

[1453 R]

Absolutely not. Kruel, I hate to be harsh, but you have no idea what you're talking about. DHS in a 250+rated engine are worth 20 standard sinks. DHS are the first upgrade you get for any 'Mech you intend to use seriously. Dragons are no exception. DT, I'll give a couple thoughts on the DRG when I'm not typing posts on my tablet during a college lecture. Heh...patience - not one of my virtues.

[Eisenhorne]

I run a VERY similar DRG-1C... I'm of the opinion that the single AC/2 isn't contributing much, and should be removed.

If you take off half a ton of armor, the AC/2, and the ammo for it, you can upgrade the engine to an XL325, and throw in 5 more heatsinks.

So you'll have 20 Double Heatsinks, 2 ER-PPC's, 2 ML's, and a top speed of 96.5 KPH after speed tweak. Works very well for me, have had a fair few 700+ damage games, sitting back and sniping.

[Xenon Codex]

Yeah, DHS is a must have, especially on this mech. LRM-10 might be a worthy replacement for the AC/2 though. I kind of like that idea but sniping and LRM's aren't my thing so I've never tried them. Might want to add TAG also.

[1453 R]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLL RIIIGHTY THEN.

The AC/2's detracting from the rest of your armament - you've got two high-mounted ER PPCs that'll be eating all of your heat dissipation anyways, and those're built for stick-and-move sniping. Poke your head up over a ridge, give someone a left straight, then skedaddle. The AC/2 requires you to hold a bead on someone and is a low-slung arm mount at that, it's not helping you as much as you'd like.

Also: are you aware that according to your listed schematic, you're not only over four tons underweight but have absolutely no armor on your head, back, or left leg? o_O

Anyways. After correcting armor issues (head 18, LR/RR torsos 20, CTR 24, both legs 39) and dropping the AC/2 and associated ammo, you get nine tons to play with. That is a positively delicious amount of play room, I gotta admit. If it were me making the 'Mech (and for the purposes of this post, it totally is), I'd bolt on an SRM-6 with a single ton of ammunition, upgrade the mediums to pulse variants, and drop in three extra heat sinks. Like so.

The stock 300-rated engine is generally enough for a mobile sniper (hint: it's absolutely not enough for the medium-to-close range strikers I play Dragons as, thus my hesitation/qualification), and having eighteen double sinks will make it a lot easier for you to toss off PPC shots whenever the opportunity arises. The medium pulse lasers and SRM-6 provide a nice fallback armament against encroaching douchebadgers, and with as many heat sinks as you've got, you should also be able to afford a full-out alpha strike or two against something that gets in your face. 47 points of damage, if well-aimed and hopefully leveraged against something your long-range fire's already weakened, should be more than sufficient for close defense. If it isn't, you've likely got bigger problems anyways.

Hope that helps out, man. Lemme know how it goes.

EDIT: Okay, Smurfy is doing weird things to armor numbers right now. In light of this, the above link is supposed to have the following armor distribution:

H: 18
CT®: 56(24)
LT®: 36(20)
RT®: 36(20)
LA: 40
RA: 40
LL: 39
RL: 39

With those numbers and the given equipment configuration, tonnage count comes out even. I wonder what the fudge is up with Smurfy, though...

Edited by 1453 R, 14 February 2013 - 11:37 AM.

[Khris Kruel]

1453 R, on 14 February 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

Absolutely not. Kruel, I hate to be harsh, but you have no idea what you're talking about. DHS in a 250+rated engine are worth 20 standard sinks. DHS are the first upgrade you get for any 'Mech you intend to use seriously. Dragons are no exception. DT, I'll give a couple thoughts on the DRG when I'm not typing posts on my tablet during a college lecture. Heh...patience - not one of my virtues.

How do you know I don't know what I'm talking about? Check my profile, I win games. That's how I know what I'm talking about. DHS is the worst upgrade you can get for any serious mech, and any competitive player isn't taking it. It's a waste of space if you know how to manage heat correctly

[Spectre999]

I too think the AC2 is not pulling its weight in this build. You'd be much better off spending the tons you get from stripping it elsewhere.

Bigger engine may not be required for sniping, but if you need a weapon for close range combat, I'd suggest SSRM or SRM4.
LRM 5 (or 10 if you manage) could work for you as well.

Shave off some leg armor and leave some 8-12 points on the empty arm to save a half-ton or two.

[1453 R]

All right. With apologies to DT for the brief threadjacking...Math Time.

Assume for the moment that a player doesn't know that his first ten engine-mounted DHS provide a true 2-to-1 heat reduction ratio to singles and assumes that all DHS in the game are worth only 1.4 single heat sinks, as the upgrade lists. This is a reasonable assumption for new players to make, as the game doesn't tell you how that works.

At that point, with DHS installed, all engine-mounted heat sinks are kicking out 1.4 times the cooling efficiency of an equivalent single heat sink. More importantly, they do this for zero critical slots. every DHS you can stick into an engine has absolutely zero impact on your 'Mech's critical slot allocation. In the listed case (a DRG-1C with a 300-rated engine), this comes to 12 engine-mounted heat sinks at 1.4x standard cooling efficiency.

So. How many standard heat sinks is that?

12(1.4) = 16.8

In this case, upgrading to double heat sinks, with nothing but the heat sinks he can install in the engine, DT gets close to five extra standard heat sinks' worth of cooling capacity for no impact whatsoever on his tonnage or critical allocation. Even with your weird, incorrect 1.2 cooling coefficient, 12 engine-mounted heat sinks is worth 14.4 standard sinks, giving nearly two and a half additional single heat sinks at no penalty whatsoever to the 'Mech's configuration once the upgrade is installed. The critical allocation savings only go up as the engine rating does.

The actual math for your standard heat sink count on a DHS machine is as follows: (10-E)(2) + X(1.4) = S, where E is the number of double sinks below 10 mounted in the engine (only applicable for sub-250 rated engines), X is the number of double heat sinks installed beyond those engine-mounted heat sinks, and S is the number of standard heat sinks that count is worth. In DT's original configuration, this simplifies to (10-0)(2) + 5(1.4), which comes to 27.

Twenty-seven standard heat sinks. Certainly the doubles take up more critical spaces than singles, but DT wouldn't begin to have the tonnage for 27 double heat sinks. And you know what? The three DHS he's mounted outside the engine take up 9 critical spaces. The fifteen single sinks he'd need to install outside the engine to gain equivalent cooling to his fifteen DHS would take up fifteen. More Math: 9 < 15.

Please stop spreading false information, Kruel. There is no such thing as a top-end design which does not use double heat sinks. There are certainly 'Mechs which don't need double heat sinks as they run particularly cool, but there is also no serious design in this entire game that does not derive benefit from double heat sinks. Not one.

[One Medic Army]

I've got a similar 1C loadout that I use and love:
2x PPC (torso)
2x ML (Arm)
1x SRM6 (CT)
R-arm empty
350XL engine
15 Double heatsinks (equivalent to 27 SHS, uses 3 crits outside engine)
Endo/Ferro upgrades
358 armor (Shaved the Right arm and Legs some)

Khris Kruel, on 14 February 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

How do you know I don't know what I'm talking about? Check my profile, I win games. That's how I know what I'm talking about. DHS is the worst upgrade you can get for any serious mech, and any competitive player isn't taking it. It's a waste of space if you know how to manage heat correctly

Dear god I hope you're trolling, otherwise I might have to lose faith in humanity's future.

[darkthought]

Consensus is to drop the AC/2, and use the arm as a shield. Gotcha.

I'll poke around Smurfy again. I'm damn sure I put the full armor in.

[Mister Blastman]

Way too hot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Khris Kruel, on 14 February 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

How do you know I don't know what I'm talking about? Check my profile, I win games. That's how I know what I'm talking about. DHS is the worst upgrade you can get for any serious mech, and any competitive player isn't taking it. It's a waste of space if you know how to manage heat correctly

Stat pics or it didn't happen!

[NRP]

Damn, the 1C looks tempting. PPC sniping in something as fast as a Dragon sounds like loads of fun.

[One Medic Army]

NRP, on 14 February 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

Damn, the 1C looks tempting. PPC sniping in something as fast as a Dragon sounds like loads of fun.

I actually do very little sniping in mine, I find that playing the mid-range brawl game at around 100-150m out works best. Truly long-range sniping can diminish the advantages of being in such a fast mech, whereas ducking in and out of combat allows you to have what is in essence an AC/20 with unlimited ammo and a 90m minimum range moving around at 105kph with lots of armor.

Edited by One Medic Army, 14 February 2013 - 01:36 PM.

[1453 R]

Salient point: you can do both. Heh, this sort of thing is the reason I'm getting a 1C for my third Dragon for mastery. The Flame is better for close-combat strike runs, but the 1C definitely has its uses. 'Sides, what can the 5N do that the 1N doesn't do while also having an extra missile hardpoint?