473 replies to this topic

[BellatorMonk]

The game has always been and still dominated by light mechs. PUGS are usually won or lost because of the light battles (when at least 2 light exist on each team) as are 8 mans.

[Stealthsfury]

LRMs did not go anywhere, we still use them for lazy pug stomps, but they have no use in 8 mans atm. Direct fire weapons are still the way to go and will continue to be even after the PPC effect goes in.

Edited by Stealthsfury, 14 February 2013 - 10:22 AM.

[Screech]

Foust, on 14 February 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

I would say that if you are getting hit often enough with PPC fire to shut down your ECM more than once or twice, you have larger problems than LRM's

Pilot #1: "Crap I can't counter the D-DC's ECM anymore with my PPC"
Pilot #2: "Why not?"
Pilot #1: "He's dead"

[Commander Kobold]

@OP really? do you really think the tiny emp effect they're addingto the PPC is going to be that much of a game changer...

[PropagandaWar]

Prosperity Park, on 14 February 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:

I am *almost* at my 10th death by LRMs since I started playing in June... so I can still count the times on my fingers when I was killed by LRMs.

Hills are OP, use them while you can before they release a BulldozerMech that can nerf hills. (Oh, and don't trundle your Atlas across open Terrain without AMS, + the AMS of your Escort, all working in unison). Since all Mechs (except a couple spiders) can mount AMS, I suggest you get back into that grove.

Hills are my AMS so I'm good.

Edited by PropagandaWar, 14 February 2013 - 10:26 AM.

[Viper69]

Funny, last night I got hurt by LRMs, but you know what I did when I heard "Warning incoming missile" I reversed and got behind or under something. The worst thing LRMS had was when they all arced super high and came down on your head and upper body. Sure they will be a pain in the butt but so is getting spammed by anything. The only thing that will change is more people will carry AMS and my 5S will be wielding 2.

Edited by Viper69, 14 February 2013 - 10:29 AM.

[Ave Hax]

Why are people still posting about this issue the lrms are meant to be a killer
and ecm was ovp an enemy light in his bubble and i still cant use tag bs
dont even think of nerfing the lrms there a balancing weapon fools learn to us cover
and the atlas with ecm isnt going anywhere thanks to steiner scout parties
oh and whers my t-shirt
see ya out there

[Commander Kobold]

Death Mallet, on 14 February 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

What can be done to fix the coming LRM apocalypse?

- Nerf LRM damage
- Increase non-ECM LRM lockon time
- Reduce LRM accuracy
- Reduce ammo/ton for LRMs
- Fix the double heat sink issue so its not biased in favor of light mechs.
http://mwomercs.com/...simplification/

. . . or all of the above.

1> it's not going to be anything neer an apocalypse, 2> judging by your founders tag you've been here a lot longer than I have so it's sad that even I know LRMs can easily be avoided with little to no effort, 3> your fixes are bad... I have no other way of putting it but bad the only fix LRMs need if any at all is to put there damage down to about 1.4-1.5. If they implemented any of your fixes they'd have to buff LRMs in another area to not make them worthless (which in the presence of ECM they kind of are)

[Yokaiko]

Death Mallet, on 14 February 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

The Problem:

LRMs never got "fixed". The problem with LRMs was only covered up by the dominance of ECM on the battlefield. Well, ECM is about to take a big hit. . . and once again the LRM boats will reap a deadly toll on everything else.

How We Got Here:

On the Feb 8 patch the heat fixes to the PPC allowed it to make a triumphant return to the battlefield. Its in widespread use again now.

On Feb 19, PPCs will now shut down ECM. Which means, AS7-D-DCs will largely become obsolete. They'll be hit with enough PPC fire that their ECM will be negated most of the time.

This leaves only the light mechs to carry the effective ECM systems.

What's Going to Happen on Feb 19:

- LRM boats are going to come back in a big way. If you're driving a heavy or assault mech, you will no longer have effective ECM cover once the PPCs start flying and, once again, you will start getting anihilated by massed LRM volleys.

- Premades will dominate PUG players more than they do now. Why? Because only the light mechs will have effective ECM due to it being harder to hit them with PPCs. On smart premade teams, the light mech drivers will be assigned to hang back and cover the heavies and assaults with their ECM. On pug teams the light mech players will charge out as they do today, leaving the heavies and assaults to get slaughtered by LRMs.

- AS7-D-DCs will gradually disappear from the battlefield. The game will come to be dominated by light mechs toting PPCs and LRM boats - probably Stalkers. Other mech types need not apply.

What can be done to fix the coming LRM apocalypse?

- Nerf LRM damage
- Increase non-ECM LRM lockon time
- Reduce LRM accuracy
- Reduce ammo/ton for LRMs
- Fix the double heat sink issue so its not biased in favor of light mechs.
http://mwomercs.com/...simplification/

. . . or all of the above.

So you are expecting all light pilots to be to stupid to just zerg all of the LRM and lock them out. Because all it takes is an ECM module in range before you dead reckoning only.

[Adridos]

Kooler, on 14 February 2013 - 09:29 AM, said:

Are they removing the cover of hills and rocks? ....No ok your freakout problem is solved. Learn different tactics and adapt

That's easy. But sitting in the cover like a shot duck will inevitably result in hunting dogs finding you.

This advice is especially great for all mechs that don't mount a gauss and actually have to close in on the opponent... I'd rather take hits for our team's D-DC.

[lsp]

There's nothing to fix, LRM's have already been re worked and re worked and re worked and then some. Right now LRM's might as well just be removed from the game, so I say good let the 19th come. Besides, I really doubt the ppc's will have much of a effect on the usage of ecm as your suggesting. I've seen like 2 or 3 people using ppc's in the last 4 hours of playing.

[One Medic Army]

Before Artemis came out, LRMs did 2 damage each, there was no ECM to stop them.
Guess what, LRMs weren't instant win buttons, they just required cover, sniping, and/or light mechs to counter.

These days people have forgotten how to deal with LRMs, the light mechs no longer vector in on them like hungry piranhas, people no longer peek-and-shoot around cover with high burst weapons, people no longer engage LRM users with long-range sniper fire.

[BatWing]

Death Mallet, on 14 February 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

The Problem:

LRMs never got "fixed". The problem with LRMs was only covered up by the dominance of ECM on the battlefield. Well, ECM is about to take a big hit. . . and once again the LRM boats will reap a deadly toll on everything else.

How We Got Here:

On the Feb 8 patch the heat fixes to the PPC allowed it to make a triumphant return to the battlefield. Its in widespread use again now.

On Feb 19, PPCs will now shut down ECM. Which means, AS7-D-DCs will largely become obsolete. They'll be hit with enough PPC fire that their ECM will be negated most of the time.

This leaves only the light mechs to carry the effective ECM systems.

What's Going to Happen on Feb 19:

- LRM boats are going to come back in a big way. If you're driving a heavy or assault mech, you will no longer have effective ECM cover once the PPCs start flying and, once again, you will start getting anihilated by massed LRM volleys.

- Premades will dominate PUG players more than they do now. Why? Because only the light mechs will have effective ECM due to it being harder to hit them with PPCs. On smart premade teams, the light mech drivers will be assigned to hang back and cover the heavies and assaults with their ECM. On pug teams the light mech players will charge out as they do today, leaving the heavies and assaults to get slaughtered by LRMs.

- AS7-D-DCs will gradually disappear from the battlefield. The game will come to be dominated by light mechs toting PPCs and LRM boats - probably Stalkers. Other mech types need not apply.

What can be done to fix the coming LRM apocalypse?

- Nerf LRM damage
- Increase non-ECM LRM lockon time
- Reduce LRM accuracy
- Reduce ammo/ton for LRMs
- Fix the double heat sink issue so its not biased in favor of light mechs.
http://mwomercs.com/...simplification/

. . . or all of the above.

Good lord, these are kind of threads that really make me sick.

OP, it seems you are basing all of your gameplay on electronic warfare and NOTHING about a chance, a possibility, you know how to work the battlefield.

LRM's panic... ECM no more effective... D-DC obsolete and no more on the battlefield.... What are you talking about??

Can we talk about a "possibility" you learn how to play the game?

A possibility of not stay like a sitting duck in the open and get killed and just stand still to get hit by PPCs?
Maybe a chance a AS pilot tries to take some cover and offer his 180 mtr bubble cover from behind a cover??

Maybe a chance that countering an ECM requires some skill now? it is possible you hit with PPCs and is also possible you miss. If everyone was so good with PPCs how come they were not using PPCs already to nuke Atlases?

Sure, heat has been fixed but hey, if it was soo easy to nuke Atlases with PPCs, there should be already less Atlases around, which i don t see happening.

What changes is just the way you employ your ECM carrier. IF You Have a Team, your team will provide some cover and will try to engage the PPC snipers with other PPC snipers or gauss or whatever..

We are talking about "playing the game" not hide yourself behind LRM lock and/or ECM coverage.

We are talking about engaging LRM carriers and harrass them to negate their fire like in the good ol' times before ECM...

Oh my.. how did we all survived the LRMs before ECM??? well, we did.. if you are so terrorized by LRM fire, you just deserve to die and burn under LRM fire... I hope your team will do nothing to protect you

[MischiefSC]

ECM and missile balance is a force multiplier for teams vs pugs. If you are building your team ahead of time with multiple ECM units and coordinating purpose then it's not a big deal. If you're on a pug team it generally means you're screwed. Especially against premades.

The current system is essentially designed not to balance LRMs or missiles or have some sort of electronic warfare system but to punish those who don't get into organized team play. You can easily balance ECM, missiles and the like on their own and in their own merits. By making missiles and ECM both OPed individually, crushingly OPed when used en mass when coordinated, what you're doing is just sticking a raised middle finger in the face of everyone who pugs.

The disruption to ECM by PPC isn't long enough to keep a missile lock from much distance. This isn't going to be 'missile-apocalypse' but it's just a reminder that for some reason PGI has decided to balance some aspects of the game to punish pug players. To ensure that regardless of their personal skill vs the team skill of who they may be playing that the games mechanics are skewed to strongly favor team play.

VOIP coordination is a big advantage. It should be. Organizing into teams and assigning roles is a big advantage. It should be. Do you really need to skew other game balance mechanics in favor of it as well? For team vs team play it's pretty minor. For pugs it's major. No amount of training videos for new players or the like is going to change this. I hope it's not PGIs intent, I don't think it's PGIs intent, but please understand that it comes across as 'Join an organized team or ****'.

Can you adapt to it as a pug? Of course you can. You can adapt to having your home destroyed in a natural disaster or living with someone with untreated bi-polar disorder. You can adapt to anything. That doesn't mean it's a good thing or enjoyable. It doesn't mean that by adapting to it the underlying problem is resolved. This is a game. Do you really want the game itself to constantly punish people for playing the way 80% or more of its players want to play? Because the only thing that would change that percentage of the player population is by less of that 80% playing and more of the 20% playing. That 80% group is NOT going to convert into the 20%. That metric is driven by factors outside the design of a computer game.

[zraven7]

What can ACTUALLY be done:

-Dodge? it does still work...
-Get behind something. Similar to above method.
-Properly implement light mech scouts. They are there for a reason.
-properly implement high-speed strikers to eliminate artillery. Ya know, like they actually do in military combat.
-Dodge. Really, is a nice thing there.
-Get behind something. Do it.

I don't get you all. You gripe about LRM's, then you gripe about ECM, then you gripe about the ECM nerf making LRM powerful. Long Range Missiles should be a big deal, and you should have incentive to get out of the way. Or, myabe, kill the scout that's painting you for the missile boat. Use cover as intended. Get artillery of your own.

I have seen precisely ZERO problem with how ECM and LRM's work. I do agree with PPCs disabling them for a time, as it adds another layer of strategy to the game.

Simply put, if you don't like missiles, stop showering in them.

[Mack1]

Death Mallet, on 14 February 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

What can be done to fix the coming LRM apocalypse?

- Nerf LRM damage
- Increase non-ECM LRM lockon time
- Reduce LRM accuracy
- Reduce ammo/ton for LRMs
- Fix the double heat sink issue so its not biased in favor of light mechs.
http://mwomercs.com/...simplification/

. . . or all of the above.

Allow me to ammend your list:

What can be done to fix the coming LRM apocalypse?

- When you hear "Incoming Missile" get behind something and power down your mech
- Do not run around the battlefield like a noob, plan your route and use cover
- never run towards an LRM boat
- Always, Always, use the flanks to sneak behind the LRM boat and get the easy kill

Basically it's time for all the easymore ECM one button pressers to do what we used to do, L2P. The game may get good again because atm it's easymode with ECM.

[Commander Kobold]

lsp, on 14 February 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

There's nothing to fix, LRM's have already been re worked and re worked and re worked and then some. Right now LRM's might as well just be removed from the game, so I say good let the 19th come. Besides, I really doubt the ppc's will have much of a effect on the usage of ecm as your suggesting. I've seen like 2 or 3 people using ppc's in the last 4 hours of playing.

probably

lsp, on 14 February 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

There's nothing to fix, LRM's have already been re worked and re worked and re worked and then some. Right now LRM's might as well just be removed from the game, so I say good let the 19th come. Besides, I really doubt the ppc's will have much of a effect on the usage of ecm as your suggesting. I've seen like 2 or 3 people using ppc's in the last 4 hours of playing.

because PPCs run hotter than large lasers but take up almost the same amount of space for a tiny 1 point boost in dmg...that said I did toss an ER PPC on my Centurion AL for giggles...it ended up being an improvement (my ability to aim and lead is ok but my ability to hold the lasers on a specific point for the duration not so much.)

[Mack1]

Death Mallet, on 14 February 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

What can be done to fix the coming LRM apocalypse?

- Nerf LRM damage
- Increase non-ECM LRM lockon time
- Reduce LRM accuracy
- Reduce ammo/ton for LRMs
- Fix the double heat sink issue so its not biased in favor of light mechs.
http://mwomercs.com/...simplification/

. . . or all of the above.

Allow me to ammend your list:

What can be done to fix the coming LRM apocalypse?

- When you hear "Incoming Missile" get behind something and power down your mech
- Do not run around the battlefield like a noob, plan your route and use cover
- never run towards an LRM boat
- Always, Always, use the flanks to sneak behind the LRM boat and get the easy kill

Basically it's time for all the easymore ECM one button pressers to do what we used to do, L2P. The game may get good again because atm it's easymode with ECM.

[Megacromulent]

The lack of intelligent response to a thought out (maybe premature) concern/prediction is just pure childishness. PLEASE BRING VOTING to these forums so the pointless and unintelligent responses can be voted into oblivion.

The fact that so many people "liked" unintelligent and reactionary posts on this thread astonishes me.

[Grisolm Redd]

I'm not trying to say this all pointless speculation...

But this is all pointless speculation.

Let's try and be more reactionary and sweep up the sky -after- it falls on us, so to speak.