17 replies to this topic

[Soda Popinsky]

Many have noticed the depth of field / camera focus doesn't necessarily follow the aim point (where your reticle / pip lands). This tends to make long range shots (not using LRMs) difficult. A benefit to this is it encourages more close up fighting, as oppose to sniping (if you see that as a benefit).

I'm not sure if having the DoF adjust is in the roadmap, but I do know from a support e-mail response I got that it is currently working as intended.

[verybad]

Makes sense. IF there's going to be DOF, may as well make it follow the reticule.

[ProtoformX]

This game is a simulator. Your head doesn't magically follow your gun barrels around; the pilot is confined to a cockpit chair. I believe the current design is much more immersive than what you're suggesting... And I like it how it is!

[Commander Kobold]

ProtoformX, on 14 February 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

This game is a simulator. Your head doesn't magically follow your gun barrels around; the pilot is confined to a cockpit chair. I believe the current design is much more immersive than what you're suggesting... And I like it how it is!

this has nothing to do with following your gun barrels though, its more that as far as the game is concerned your character (in the cockpit) is always staring perfectly foreward not matter where you aim your arms ect (and I'm pretty sure if you're aiming something your going to look at your reticule{if you have one})

[SUBZERO8K]

I'd rather them leave it the way it is. I've seen the DOF following your reticle in games and it's always pretty jarring to me. I'd rather them just give us the option to remove DOF altogether.

[flackee]

Soda Popinsky, on 14 February 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

I'm not sure if having the DoF adjust is in the roadmap, but I do know from a support e-mail response I got that it is currently working as intended.

Bryan Ekman, on 08 February 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

Depth of field is an aspect of gameplay, as it affects player vision. We are reviewing the gameplay impact, and may add the option to tune it.

[scruffy416]

Maybe have the current DoF mechanic work as is, and have Zoom modes 2.0x and 3.0x feature DoF which is focused on reticule/cross-hairs?

[Soda Popinsky]

[quote name='Bryan Eckman' timestamp='1360868804' post='1893466']
[color=#959595]Depth of field is an aspect of gameplay, as it affects player vision. We are reviewing the gameplay impact, and may add the option to tune it.[/color]
[/quote]

Thanks, I didn't catch that. Reading that, it's a bit ambiguous if they're talking about the ability to shut it off / turn it down, as oppose to having it follow the aim point.

[quote name='SUBZERO8K][font=HelveticaNeue-Light' date=']I'd rather them leave it the way it is. I've seen the DOF following your reticle in games and it's always pretty jarring to me. I'd rather them just give us the option to remove DOF altogether.[/quote'][/font]

[font=HelveticaNeue-Light,]I personally find it jarring that you don't focus on what you are looking at. But then again, I guess I'm use to looking at things.[/font]

Edited by Soda Popinsky, 14 February 2013 - 11:47 AM.

[Mazzyplz]

if a mech is 100 meters or less then the background can become blurry, other than that it would be unrealistic,
when you're sitting on a 12th story you don't see a lot of stuff out of focus if it's far, it's like a clear polaroid.

also the foreground shouldn't go out of focus if you aim behind a mech, that would be stupid and doesn't happen at that scale, except for very very slightly

[Corpsecandle]

I think this would make me horribly sick...

[Soda Popinsky]

M A L I C E, on 14 February 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

DOF really has no place in games, it's a moronic "eye candy" feature that serves no actual purpose, and doesn't even correctly emulate how our eyes work.

I'm not asking whether or not DoF should be in the game. I'm asking if it should focus on based on what you are "looking at."


What got me thinking about this was the ECM issue at range. People say ECM is easily countered with lasers and/or ballistic weapons. The problem is, it's a bit tough to aim/snipe at a blur. I feel like it's trying to aim a gun while purposely blurring your vision, or focusing on the front sight of the rifle.

Edited by Soda Popinsky, 14 February 2013 - 12:42 PM.

[Soda Popinsky]

M A L I C E, on 14 February 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

And I'm saying, No, it shouldn't do that, or do anything at all, because your eyes ALREADY DO THAT.

I see. So you feel focus should remain on the foreground, so you can't see things clearly far away (as it currently is in game). interesting.

[Soda Popinsky]

M A L I C E, on 14 February 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

No, this is not what I'm saying at all.

Look. Go into the settings and turn off post processing.

Now go into a match.

Now look at your cockpit somewhere. Can you easily make out what's in the distance in your peripheral vision wihout looking directly out at it?

Now look out in the distance. Can you easily make out all the details of the cockpit in your peripheral vision without looking directly at it?

The answer will be "No" in both instances, because that's ACTUAL DOF, literally, how your eyes work in real life.

That's literally all DOF is: Not seeing what's in your peripheral vision.

Cameras have no "peripheral" vision, and "DOF" is just a poor emulation of what our eyes do.

So, again, it's completely stupid to try to emulate this in a game.

I'm not for DoF in the game. I'm not asking in the poll whether or not DoF should be in the game.

The point of the poll was, since DoF is in game, and is currently locked to the foreground, should it be able to shift further out so you can actually aim further. I thought I made that clear, and you answered no, it shouldn't do "that." making me think you wanted it to remain locked to the foreground. "That" being the ability to have focus shift from the foreground - not whether or not DoF should be in game.

Edited by Soda Popinsky, 14 February 2013 - 01:26 PM.

[Roland]

Well, DoF is actually emulating a different aspect of your vision than the peripheral blurring you see normally. It's attempting to emulate the FOCUS aspect of your vision.. that is, when you look at things at different ranges, your eyes focus on that thing, causing things at other ranges to go out of focus.

This is different than your inability to focus on things at the periphery of your vision, which is due to the fact that your retina just doesn't have the same resolution at the edges as it does in the center region.

The second aspect is automatically emulated, without any DoF blurring... your eyes will naturally see less detail on the edges of your screen, unless you choose to look at them directly.

The first aspect, focus, would require the game to actually track where your EYES were looking, such that it would bring stuff at that range into focus. Simpy tracking the center of the screen doesn't do it, as this results in garbage effects like in Call of Duty, where you accidentally put the reticle over a blade of grass and cause everything to blur out.

The reality is that DoF blurring is a silly eyecandy effect, as MALICE suggests. It tends to just detract from gameplay, and cause headaches.

The reason it causes headaches is that it's emulating something that your eyes naturally do.. but in a way that is totally beyond your actual eyes' control. Thus, your brain sees stuff that is "out of focus" despite you looking directly at it... and its response is to send a signal to your eyes, "Hey eyeballs! I wanna see that crap! Focus on it!"

To which your eyes respond, "WE ARE TRYING! It's not working! Zee goggles! Zey do nathing!"

And this has the effect of straining your eyes and giving you a headache. And it sucks balls.

Please just remove this effect from the game. It's bad.

[Dukarriope]

DoF while at 1.0x should probably be normal as it is now, but zoomed in DoF should definitely be biased towards the reticle's distance. Especially since I imagine the zoom is an optical zoom function, and autofocusing should hardly be a nonexistent technology even in BattleTech.

I mentioned this to the devs in a support ticket a few months ago but they told me to make a Suggestions section thread. I forgot to do so.

Edited by Dukarriope, 14 February 2013 - 01:43 PM.

[Mazzyplz]

im afraid the guy who commented on the focus is right

this aspect of the games is not about actual human vision, but rather a photographic effect that occurs in cameras all the time, mechanical depth of field has been used for over 100 years. you can even adjust it on a pinhole camera somewhat.
the eyes does work similarly and gets focus but unlike a camera or even a real life you cannot adjust the distance for the DOF with your mind or with a knob/slider.
you're dependent on the game for that

and it is why it's so terrible

[Soda Popinsky]

I wonder if people are reading the poll correctly. I suspect people think a No vote means no DoF at all.

I find it surprising people want to see things far off blurry. It's like looking at something 50 feet away while near-sighted without glasses/contacts.

Maybe mechwarriors are all myopic.

[Soda Popinsky]

M A L I C E, on 14 February 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

Perhaps consider revising your poll as I suggested, providing an "No DOF in the game at all" option.

I would, but that would negate the previous votes. Better to create a new poll for that.

Besides, I'm pretty sure that option would win.

Edited by Soda Popinsky, 14 February 2013 - 02:37 PM.