4 replies to this topic

[aptest]

heya guys.

I piked up this title yesterday and have played it a bit and while i really like the idea behind it there are a couple of things that really bug me. I've made a short list, and would definitely like your opinions even (and especially) if it is just to say that I am wrong on all accounts:

• games heavily biased towards clumping up in one big group and smashing opponents. Whoever focuses better wins. Tactics limited to what kind of weapons to bring and group formation.

Strategy seems to be penalized. Try to split, and you get mobbed and gunned down and the bigger group will focus the rest of your team.

• Core mechanics heavily biased towards focus fire. As a result early loss of player heavily biases game towards first-blood team. As a result tentative clumped up play is preferable as a general rule.

• “Strategy” in this game somehow refers to min-maxing your mech loadout and discussing various builds. More complex ideas about strategy (cap and run tactics for instance) not supported by game currently (in the sense that trying them probably gets your team to lose).

• match making prevents meta formation by forcing enemy composition to be similar to yours in a way. Counter strategies s.a. mass lights VS heavies cannot form because match making will give enemy team lights instead.

• match making ignores different power efficiencies between mech classes. Cicada class (at least free week cicada) seems under-powered when compared to free week jenner, yet takes more team resources from a match making perspective.

• different power levels based on load out and equipment. But more importantly old mechs > new mechs because they have upgrades. Match making responds to 4 premades grouping together in their maxed-out raven-3L by matching them against 4 free-week Jenners.

• no regard to different power levels between players. New comers in their free-week machins who solo-Q being eaten alive by veterans in their maxed out tech.

what do you guys think?

[EarlGrey83]

Awesome analysis for someone who picked up the game just yesterday.

Most of your points are totally right, here´s where i like to differ:

-The trial (free) mechs: They don´t really matter in the game, people use them for the first 10 games, than never again. They are just not representive in terms of balance.

-There are more strategies in game if you can play together with good players, especially in groups with Team Speak. (There are a lot of free servers linked here in the forum, new players are always welcome)
To allways stick together is just the only viable strategie for people without in game comunication, sadly the game does´nt offer much.

- Normaly I would not bring this argument, because its kind of stupid, but I will do anyways :
The game is still in beta, and its getting better. Next week a big patch is announced that will bring an elo system for better matchmaking, and the first of some new maps that are a lot larger than the ones we have, making spliting and scouting a much higher priority to win.

So, I hope you give the game a chance for some more weeks (at least till next tuesday, patchday), its quite fun allready and has a lot of new features incoming during the next few month.

Here is the link to what´s coming next: http://mwomercs.com/...veloper-update/
Link for friendly comunity TS servers: http://mwomercs.com/...e-chat-servers/

Oh, and welcome to MWO

Edited by EarlGrey83, 15 February 2013 - 03:50 AM.

[qki]

@ OP:

Some of your "observations" are written into the universe. Unlike shooters, where all it takes is a couple of rounds to kill someone, destroying a 'mech takes a lot more effort.

The more guns you have on the job, the easier it is, hence the deathball is a natural, viable tactic.


There is room for strategy in this game, but:

1. limited communication makes it difficult to coordinate with people. Having to stop fighting just to type something in the chat, without guarantee that people will even be able to understand english is the limiting factor here. With no voip built into the game, you need to rely on TS/Vent and dropping in 4-man groups.

2. Depends on what you mean by "strategy". If you mean "i'll surprise the enemy team, and totally pwn their flank alone", then it's not going to work. Sadly - there is a cubic buttload of people online with just that idea: "i'll go around this building, and have a clear shot at the unsuspect... oh **** why are there 6 mechs shooting at me?!!"

3. Without communication, people don't know when to press the advantage. You CAN circle around and draw the enemy attention, or move in to attack a lone, damaged 'mech, only to find that the rest of your team decided now would be a good time to excersise some "strategic movement", and before you know it, you are fighting alone, and help is just not coming.


Min maxing will always be a part of the game.At the core, every 'mech is defined not by what loadouts it has, but what loadouts it CAN have - that means hardpoints, and wether or not it is ECM capable. If you think about it, you'll see that the JR-7K is strictly worse than JR-7D (which has 1 more missile hardpoint), and both are strictly worse than RVN-3L, which can carry ECM and match their firepower.
Choosing the right loadout has always been one of the most important decisions in the game, since 1990.

[Lugh]

I roll with guys all the time that outflank waiting death balls and hit them in the rear, often destroying 2+ ,mechs before they know what's going on....
and that's just 2 or 3 mechs repositions while the others 'hold the line'

[Sesambrot]

• I'd argue that this is due to the games focus on teamwork and is actually intended. If you were able to go out on your own and be successful, this would be CoD with mechs, and nobody wants that.
  
  There are plenty of tactics available, the biggest problem currently is the lack of proper communication and the mindset of people and many of them playing with at most half a brain... using each other as shields, blocking somebodys retreat to avoid getting shot at even though you haven't taken any damage yet, and not knowing your role on the field depending on the mech you're in, is sure to lead to you being slaughtered!
  I see too many assaults with big engines charging the enemy, and lights with small engines so they can pack big weapons but unable to perform the scouting role they are supposed to...
  
  Anyway, there are plenty of tactics available, the problem being that you need a halfway decent team and the way the MM works you're either dropping with a group of vets or a group of newbs, there simply is no middleground...
  However, with decent PUGs I managed to pull off flanking maneuvers, basically splitting our team into two lances and as soon as the enemy is occupied we got in their backs and tore them apart. All it needs is a bit of timing, and with a hint of situational awareness it's even possible without a lot of communication. Hell, it's even pretty darn effective if I have only one of my team following me as long as he's a decent pilot.
  
• Again, probably a result of the focus on teamwork, which is a good thing IMO. However, it heavily depends on what kind of mech you lose. If it's a Light, chances are you might do well nonetheless especially if he put out some damage before going down, but if it's some numb-nut charging with an XL-Awesome, you're pretty much screwed...
  
  
  I don't think the game should be blamed for that, but the idiots who do that over and over again even though it doesn't work, it never works!
  There certainly are ways to overwhelm a team that is huddled together like newborn puppies, but I would agree that it's currently the easiest thing to do since LRMs are rendered useless with GECM working as it does and everything else is rather difficult to pull off without proper communication.
  
  And I can't believe I'm the one pointing this out, but this is still beta, so I hope they mix things up a bit with future updates...
  
• Min-maxing has always been a problem in Mechwarrior, MWO is no different! However, due to the hardpoint-system, it's by far not as bad as it could be, there are still plenty of mixed builds being used to great effect. The biggest problem being that the stock-builds/trialmechs pretty much all suck ***! I tell you most vets have problems handling the heat on most of them!
  
  As for strategies/tactics; As the others pointed out getting in their back alone and owning them is not going to work, what you wanna do in that situation is to create a diversion to make it easier for your team to attack the occupied enemy. Hit'n'Run attacks work well in this regard, they'll be so occupied trying to chase you down, that they often won't notice the rest of your team moving in on them. Alternatively, sitting on their cap for a couple of seconds will usually result in half of their team turning back trying to protect it, basically splitting them in two.
  The biggest problem there being that the rest of your team needs to get the hint somehow and without integrated VoIP or quick-commands this is always a bit of a gamble...
  
• Matchmaking is **** and Trialmechs suck, that's all there is to it.
  The first one is being worked on, the second will probably never change...

EDIT: God, this list-formating-thing is horrid!

Edited by Sesambrot, 15 February 2013 - 04:25 AM.