173 replies to this topic

[bantapoo]

this mech suffers from the lack of tonnage alas. dual ac20 configuration is bit slow and contrived due to the weight, and you're loosing any long range possibility (maybe 1 ER LL with those 2xac20?).
I think the most common ballistic weapon used will be UAC5, because it will free up the tonnage to have varied armament.

[Gandalfrockman]

bantapoo, on 15 March 2013 - 05:01 AM, said:

this mech suffers from the lack of tonnage alas. dual ac20 configuration is bit slow and contrived due to the weight, and you're loosing any long range possibility (maybe 1 ER LL with those 2xac20?).
I think the most common ballistic weapon used will be UAC5, because it will free up the tonnage to have varied armament.

Your wrong on this one, There are no arm actuators in the jagermech, this means it is the only mech anywhere near its weight class capable of bringing an XL engine and DUAL AC20's This gives it a solid 10 -12 ton lead on the catapult in any loadout using all the arm slots.

It also has MUCH better hardpoint mounts, both arm are located HIGHER than the cockpit, and nearly all the hardware is on the arms rather than the torso. That is a huge advantage with ballistics.

This is going to be a fantastic Mech as long as they dont gimp it with a terrible twist range, or something.

Edited by Gandalfrockman, 15 March 2013 - 05:44 AM.

[Sedant]

Gandalfrockman, on 13 March 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

Ditto, My Heavy class ELO will weep painful painful tears.
Those tears are the cost of experimentation though... if thats the price I must pay too find a working 4xUAC5 build so be it.

as a sidenote, I am Beginning to think we should worry less about weight, and more about slots.....
XL engine+4xUAC5+endosteel+ammo is ALOT of slots....

Its also why it isnt viable..... 6 tons of ammo for 4 Ultra A/C's??? Not going to happen sorry.....

[Kingdok]

Sedant, on 15 March 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

Its also why it isnt viable..... 6 tons of ammo for 4 Ultra A/C's??? Not going to happen sorry.....

you can build it with 8 tons of ammo, which will still never satisfy the definition of 'viable' so many of us appear to be working with. Nonetheless, it will be done. Anyone who can reliably hit their targets with even 6 tons of ammo is going to be hurting somebody. On the not-so-bright side, you won't be burning through UAC5 rounds nonstop - half the time your cannons will be jammed and not consuming ammo...

[Takony]

Royalewithcheese, on 14 March 2013 - 04:46 AM, said:

I don't think CASE helps with ammo in an XL torso - if that section's gone, whole mech is gone anyway. OTOH, it might be worth considering CASE for an arm with ammo in it. (...)

There is the rare occasion when your side torso is critical (armor destroyed), but not destroyed entirely. In that case, when/if the ammo is hit by another critical, and explodes, with CASE it blows up harmlessly and you live, without CASE it blows up your engine. If weight/critical space permits, I think it is a meaningful investment, of course YMMV.
CASE cannot be mounted in arms.

[TipsyMcSwaggart]

If we see canon builds for the Jagr expect to get some glass hammers. Either way it should be interesting.

[trycksh0t]

Takony, on 15 March 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

There is the rare occasion when your side torso is critical (armor destroyed), but not destroyed entirely. In that case, when/if the ammo is hit by another critical, and explodes, with CASE it blows up harmlessly and you live, without CASE it blows up your engine. If weight/critical space permits, I think it is a meaningful investment, of course YMMV.
CASE cannot be mounted in arms.

No it doesn't. Even with CASE, in the event of an ammo explosion, your entire torso goes with it, it just doesn't go any further than that (Unless something with CASE in-game has changed recently). If you're running an XL engine, CASE will not save you, the engine still goes up with the rest of the torso. If you're running a Standard engine, CASE can be a frelling godsend.

OT: With a lot of fiddling and shoehorning, I think I've managed to get quad-AC/2s and 2 LLs on a Jager. I need to double check my math, but the metal storm from that should be hysterical.

Alternatively, dual AC/2s and dual ERPPCs would work, they have the same projectile speed, so if one hits they all hit.

Edited by trycksh0t, 16 March 2013 - 12:10 AM.

[Kingdok]

trycksh0t, on 16 March 2013 - 12:08 AM, said:

OT: With a lot of fiddling and shoehorning, I think I've managed to get quad-AC/2s and 2 LLs on a Jager. I need to double check my math, but the metal storm from that should be hysterical.

Alternatively, dual AC/2s and dual ERPPCs would work, they have the same projectile speed, so if one hits they all hit.

I haven't tried building either of those yet -- how will you cool them? I think the ERPPC/AC2 combo will be more manageable in this regard, but we'll know soon enough. quad AC2's are usually pretty hot without any lasers.

[POOTYTANGASAUR]

Mr 144, on 13 March 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

Oh me niether...but wierd, how this started as your 3xUAC comparison...That's pretty much the closest you can get to an Ilya for Dakka....don't even get me started on the 4X for even more dakka.

AC/20 Jager
Gauss Jager
Both pilot preference compared to the 'pult version...pluses and minuss to each.

Dakka Jager
Inferior to the 'phract Ilya or CTF-4X in almost every way.

Jager-A
there's possibilities here using the missile points with ballisictics

Mr 144

There is no minus to running an ac20 or gauss jager compared to catapult it can run xl which pult cant, it has 2 energy slots(all you need in my opinion), same tonnage-so same speed for each engine. I dont see a minus
.

I cant wait for a hero jager that will be crazy.

[Takony]

trycksh0t, on 16 March 2013 - 12:08 AM, said:

No it doesn't. Even with CASE, in the event of an ammo explosion, your entire torso goes with it, it just doesn't go any further than that (Unless something with CASE in-game has changed recently). If you're running an XL engine, CASE will not save you, the engine still goes up with the rest of the torso. If you're running a Standard engine, CASE can be a frelling godsend.

I must disagree (at least in this patch), CASE acted the way I described it: had XL, had CASE with ammo on torso, ammo got blown, torso remained, mech survived. Very rare combination, I admit, but confirms my understanding of CASE: only the ammo gets destroyed, and _if the damage is not enough to destroy your torso anyways_ the rest is unharmed.

Here's hoping equipment will get decent tooltips/explanation.

[Armored Yokai]

Boaters of the jagermech will have to deal with light armor
and sometimes low speed

[Royalewithcheese]

Cementblade, on 17 March 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

Boaters of the jagermech will have to deal with light armor
and sometimes low speed

How does full armor on everything but your legs, ~80 KPH, 2xAC20, and 8 tons to spend on backup weapons and ammo sound?

[HlynkaCG]

Royalewithcheese, on 17 March 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

How does full armor on everything but your legs, ~80 KPH, 2xAC20, and 8 tons to spend on backup weapons and ammo sound?

I'd say that it sounds pretty cheesy, which is appropriate considering your user name.

I can't complain though, I'm a ballistics junky and will probably run a similar loadout at some point. 3 tons of ammo per gun + two medium lasers sounds pretty damn good. Alternately trade the 20s for 10s and bump the Medium Lasers up to Larges to make a truly nasty medium/long range direct-fire mech.

Edited by HlynkaCG, 17 March 2013 - 05:22 PM.

[White Bear 84]

Cementblade, on 17 March 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

Boaters of the jagermech will have to deal with light armor
and sometimes low speed

Insightful.

[Royalewithcheese]

HlynkaCG, on 17 March 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

I'd say that it sounds pretty cheesy, which is appropriate considering your user name.

It's a handle I use a lot in FPS games, but in MWO it turned out to be oddly appropriate

[Mr 144]

POOTYTANGASAUR, on 17 March 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

There is no minus to running an ac20 or gauss jager compared to catapult it can run xl which pult cant, it has 2 energy slots(all you need in my opinion), same tonnage-so same speed for each engine. I dont see a minus
.

I cant wait for a hero jager that will be crazy.

Ummm, it should be pretty obvious what the trade-offs are between an AC/20 K2 Cat and a Jager...
*Giant wing side torsos may make XLs extremely dangerous...you're looking at a realistic top speed of ~77 with ammo and 20s.
*Arm mounted AC/20s are far less protected than in the K2's side torsos.
Pure pilot's perogative, but definate pros and cons.

Mr 144

[HlynkaCG]

Royalewithcheese, on 17 March 2013 - 05:24 PM, said:

It's a handle I use a lot in FPS games, but in MWO it turned out to be oddly appropriate

back in the early days of online gaming, I'm a mercnet vet, I went by Sandwichwarrior, I was boxing semi-professionally and sponsored by a local Deli. Now I just use my name and initials.

I really am looking forward to the Jager though. I'm a huge fan of ballistic weapons and run Hunchies and Phracts almost exclusively. In CB I ran a K-2 with 2 ac10s and 2 Large lasers and I'm looking forward to resurrecting that build on a new chassis.

Likewise even the stock variants strike me as being pretty damn drool-worthy, especially the J-A if you use Endo and DHS to free up enough tonnage to pick up Artemis and some extra armor.

Edited by HlynkaCG, 17 March 2013 - 06:12 PM.

[movingtarget]

i think the side torso "fins?" should only take 50% damage when hit from the sides and or make the fins destroyable

[Lege]

Don't see any reason to buy one, unless your doing all the mechs.
I'll wait for the highlander and orion.

[Ridir Semii]

so I have 2 designs worked up, a quad ac2 and a change of wavelengths, I think:

6S, with 4 MG, 3tons ammo, in the arms
XL stock size (same mv)
4 ERLL in the torsos for hit
16 DHS
BAP
find somewhere to pull 6 pts armor from full

Yes, the big guns are in the hips, but the arm mounted MG should help with the lil b#$%^($ that run circles around you...

Dunno, me likey, your mileage may very... LoLz