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Anyways, if I wanted to write a whole new post I would, but because this is on the front page again I thought I'd just add that. This is an interesting slice of mechwarrior past for me because at the time I think that tierlist was SPOT ON. Now I can see some clear changes... Certain mechs have dropped behind the pack and the JJ change put the cataphract 3D up there with the A1 for "best heavies" probably with the K2 close in there as well. With how much better the netcode is, direct fire weapons are all super strong now and SRMs tend to hit so... Here is a short tierlist update with the best mechs in each weight category.
GOD TIER MECHS: Raven 3L (streaks still lol), Centurion A (SRMs), Hunchback 4SP (SRMs and medium lasers), Cicada 3M (My build is a secret but I copied blazing aces so ask them!), Cataphract 3D (Jumpsniper), Catapult A1/K2 (SRM/AC20/GAUSS alpha beast), Atlas DDC (long range, short range, who cares this mech is best assault hands down and will be until another one gets ECM)
Hello MWO community! I'm Captain Midnight, and I am a veteran player from founders wave 10 of closed beta (and a legendary founder). I've played nearly 2,500 games in open beta, own every variant of every mech, each and every one of which is elited. I have 50m C-Bills in the bank, DHS and XL engines for nearly every mech and every weapon configuration. All modules are unlocked and purchased, as well as 55k GXP in the bank.
My KDR is 4.17, and my W/L ratio is 6.7. I am what I would consider an elite mechwarrior, and I mention those stats not only to wag my epeen but so that hopefully people are like "damn, that guy has played an insane amount of mechwarrior, his opinions on balance probably hold at least some weight". I'm between work right now, it's winter holidays, I'm early 20s... I'm kicking back and spending a couple months hanging out with friends and playing mechwarrior when I'm just sitting around at home, which is a lot. I'm not some basement nerd and whatever you think try to stay on topic here and focus on the issues not the personalities.
This thread is basically a TL;DR about what I think of MWO in terms of balance, where I want MWO to go, and also a brief tierlist of weapons/Mechs so that new players and anyone looking for guidance can really get an idea of what is good and what isn't. Ideally people can use this as a resource and general primer on MWO meta and theory (at least from my perspective).
First off, I think missiles are kind OP. A generally true rule is that if you have both an ECM advantage and a streak advantage (particularly on light v light) you are at an INSANE advantage, because of how strong streaks are. For larger mechs with ECM it pretty much gets rid of LRM fire, but without ECM coverage LRMs are op. It's too binary and LRMs should be usable in more situations but be substantial less powerful, they should be backup weapons not boat-able primary weapons. Same with streaks, they need to be bad enough that stacking them isn't the best option. The best way to nerf them IMO is either straight damage, lots of heat, ammo per ton, or best possible option add some more skill to them. Also, something about the A1 is just broken. SSRM2s are ez mode on it, and now Artemis SRM6s are ez mode too. Missiles need a nerf for sure and it has to be something systemic so they aren't OP when boated or worthless when alone like what convergence and lag does for other weapons.
Second, lasers are at an advantage right now in a sense, but ballistics are better overall alpha weapons. A 3xGauss or 3xAC20 build would be insane, or 4xUAC, could you guys imagine? Right now I really favor lasers because you can boat 4xPPC on an Atlas RS /w 40 standard heat sinks and obliterate people with 40 points of alpha headshot firepower/limb burst, or a 5xLL Cataphract or a 9xML Hunchback; boats like that just aren't here for ballistics yet. Therefore I think ballistics and energy are perhaps totally fine, with the real problem being missiles, boating in general, and heat mechanics. Convergence ought to be less of a factor for beam/ballistics UNLESS it's going to become more of a factor for missiles. Boating in general is the real problem and something very clever is needed, it can't feel like you aren't allowed to boat, the game needs to make you not even want to boat in the first place...
Third, it's not too late to make these four maps be the only arena deathmatch style maps. The next maps can be big and this game will have a MUCH richer metagame for it if we get some big honkin' maps in this game. Many more strategies and much less of an arms race as speed and versatility become more important than strength rushing a route. The bigger the maps the easier the game will be to balance.
Fourth, ECM is ridiculous, but it needs to be balanced hand in hand with streaks and LRMs and I think some entirely new systems need to be developed, like after each shot you have to re-lock streaks, (and make streaks lock faster than LRMs/separately). Make it so they miss 100% of the time if lock is lost. I dunno, stuff like that, stuff that makes it harder for it to just hit automatically all the time with no effort involved. That level of power is why ECM is necessarily so powerful, it just shuts off the mechanism that streak/lrm uses. It's too binary and not interesting game play. Perhaps Artemis should require that the cursor remain inside the red r-square for the ENTIRE flight duration (maybe even need LOS), but as a reward increase the flight time dramatically. That makes Artemis more of a lateral upgrade instead of such an obviously direct one. As a result of it being less of a dramatic upgrade the price for ammo can come down as you'll no longer need an artificial reason to restrict it's use.
Fifth, 8-mans and matchmaking in general need some revisions. For the very least and most immediate change, we need the 8-mans to prefer weight based. I'm thinking 30 seconds of looking for even weights, then if you can't 30 more seconds looking for any other group that has already failed their first 30 second search. Ideally this will encourage people to bring some lighter mechs or face longer queue times. Fixed weight limit won't really fix much, and forced 2/2/2/2 just feels arbitrary. 2/2/2/2 would be better than what we have now though that's for dang sure.
And finally, I hope to see this game succeed in the deepest way possible. I really feel like this game is allllmost the best game ever, and with a little bit better balance and much better stability it'll be awesome. I want everyone who plays this game to have fun, so hopefully my tier list and my rant on the state of the game allow people who are frustrated and don't know why they are losing maybe to get a better of understanding of how to take their Mech roster to the next level and some basic metagame stuff.
I sorted it in order of what I thought was the absolute best Mech/weapon in the current game overall in terms of what they bring to a team. I noted what build next to the Mech in case anyone didn't know what to stick on it for maximum cheesy competition for the Mechs, and a brief reasoning on weaponry.
Right now in the current 4s environment most any high DPS boat can do great work, most pug games involve a lot of fast paced action and DPS is generally king. That means lots of heat stability, hopefully some speed so you can disengage and get good shots in, and plenty of high DPS weapons. In 4s I find that boats are generally the best Mechs because they have the highest DPS. Marmets /w 3xUAC5, 4p /w 9ML, these are extremely powerful Mechs in 4s. LRMs are also big in 4s still because ECM coverage is not universal. The Streakapult is still viable even for that reason, but if you draw against an ECM team your Streakapult is dead meat.
For the 8s environment I think running rush strats with brawlers (fast heavies, DDCs, 3Ls) is a good idea, or doing high alpha snipers (DDCs, 3Ls, 3D /w 2xERPPC 1xGauss, 3D /w 2xGauss, K2 /w 2xGauss, RS /w 4xLL or 4xPPC etc). Basically long range alpha builds. It's pretty much one or the other and you want to have a lot of ECM and you also want your team to be on the same page. A PPC atlas is not really gonna contribute as much in a brawler team as vice versa and brawler won't live up to his potential on a sniper team.
LRMs generally aren't very effective due to universal ECM coverage, and streaks are only useful on 3Ls/DDCs that can get into counter-ECM wars to use their OP streaks.
In general any build that has a dedicated use for all of it's weapons will do well. I highly recommend going for two discreet ranges, usually long range direct fire + close range brawling. For example have two long ranged weapons that you can fire in the initial skirmishes as well as a complementary low-heat high dps knife fighting backup. PPCs + SRMs + MLs for example is a deadly combo (ala centurion, hunchback. Alternatively insane alpha builds always have a place at any range. SRM6 alpha juggernauts and massive laser boats, or just an array of large high impact weaponry.
Right now, in my opinion, the meta favors 270-600 meter engagement ranges pretty heavily. Most of the fighting that results in kills happens in these ranges, so optimizing to keep that range and thrive in it with speed and weaponry that's well suited to the task is crucial.
MECH TIERS
S - God tier (stack these guys to win cheesy)
Atlas DDC (Streaks + Whatever), Raven 3L (Streaks), Catapult A1 (SRM6+Artemis), Cataphract 1X (5xLL), Cataphract 3D (4xML, 2xGauss, JJ), Catapult K2 (2xGauss/AC20)
A - Highly Competitive
Commando 2D (streaks), Cicada 3M (MPL/ML), Hunchback 4P (9ML), Atlas D/RS, Ilya Muromets (3xUAC5/AC10), HBK-4SP, Dragon 1C (4xLL, Endo, DHS, XL), Catapult C1, Dragon 5N (3xAC2), Cataphract 4X (4xAC2/AC5).
B - Workable
Catapult C4, Cataphract 2X, Jenner D (Such a fall from grace), Jenner F (Barely even acceptable now as well),
F - No way jose
Jenner K, Dragon 1N, Commandos, Ravens, Hunchbacks/Centurions, Cicadas, Awesomes.
WEAPONS
S - God tier
Streaks (OP, if you can use 'em), Artemis SRM4/6 (Short range but OP damage), Gauss (ideal alpha/dps), AC10 (great alpha/dps), Medium Laser (ideal mix of range, damage, and heat), Large Laser (Great mix of range, damage, and heat)
A - Highly Competitive
UAC5 (Jams, but works great when boated), AC20 (sick alpha, high heat), AC2 (high heat high dps), Medium Pulse Laser (nice DPS/heat) , PPCs (high heat high alpha),
B - Workable
LRMs (too hard to land, but good damage), non-artemis SRMs (not enough range), AC5 (not enough dps), LBX10 (not enough range), ER Large Laser (too hot), Large Pulse Laser (too hot, not enough range), Small laser (not enough range), Small Pulse Laser (not enough range), ER PPCS (too hot).
Edited by Captain Midnight, 15 February 2013 - 03:25 PM.
