17 replies to this topic

[Jaxwen]

What:
Much like opening missile door/covers; Mechs including lower arm actuators have a piloting control function to toggle arms in "raised-extended forward" position verse being in the "lowered-retracted" position. Imagine having your mech arms hanging at your sides, then bending at just the elbow to raise your lower arm pointed foward, but never bothering to bend any of the other joints that are taking up critical spaces in your mech. I imagine the developers already have this intention on a to-do list somewhere so I apologize if it is not original.

Why:
Because aim points with the weapons on the Atlas arms (for example) fires from a waist level origin far off center point from the cockpit targeting reticule. This leads to shooting nearby teammates on accident where that accidental team damage leads to a loss. (This problem is magnified when pilots are zooming in on distant targets.) On the other hand, skilled mechwarriors who are well aware of this refrain from firing on targets they could otherwise fire upon if their arms were raised (extended reaching forward). Which limits the damage done and also leads to a match loss.

Balancing:
For those players who choose mechs without actuators go get them extra critical spaces (like the Stalker) and also the targeting advantage of those weapons mount positions, this suggestion would provide counter-balance for those mechs that have fewer critical spaces and poor targeting alignment.

No doubt one of you more communication gifted people could describe the suggestion better. Please feel free to restate it in a more simplified way. Thanks!

[Alois Hammer]

...because the Fire Moth doesn't look ridiculous enough, and we need them in Atlas-sized?

Blech.

[Renthrak]

If the fluff is any indication, this seems reasonable. Examples:

Atlas with arms raised:
http://www.sarna.net...ted_Atlas_D.jpg
http://www.sarna.net...ted_Atlas_K.jpg

Cataphract:
http://www.sarna.net..._Cataphract.jpg

Centurion:
http://www.sarna.net...N-Centurion.png
http://www.sarna.net...h_Centurion.jpg

Commando:
http://www.sarna.net...5S_Commando.jpg
http://www.sarna.net...5U_Commando.jpg

Dragon (not the gun arm):
http://www.sarna.net...ited_Dragon.jpg

Highlander:
http://www.sarna.net..._Highlander.jpg
http://www.sarna.net...es_%2824%29.jpg

Even so, the existing arrangement could fall under the devs stated aim of having functional differences between the 'Mechs, so it might be off the table already. Then again, melee is planned somewhere down the road, so more mobile 'Mech arms are compatible with that.

[The Cheese]

Holy balls, the old designs were ugly.

Also, I support the raised-arms suggestion. It would give new life to the term "Zombie Atlas".

[Renthrak]

The Cheese, on 17 February 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

Holy balls, the old designs were ugly.

Yes. Fortunately, PGI has a good concept artist.

[Runenstahl]

It sucks that you can have a clear line of sight to your target and fire your weapons.... only to find out they hit some low obstacle in front of you. Some sort of change would be nice. Could be raising arms. Could maybe also solved be 3rd person view.

Yes I know. 3rd person view. Starting flaming raging troll war etc

[Duymon]

Dude, this is the best Idea I've seen for fixing the atlas Arm issue.

After that they need to make a Hero Atlas that allows you to shoot your fists at mechs ala Mazinger Z!

[Zaptruder]

Needs a drawback, otherwise all mechs would play with their arms up.

Suggestion: no horizontal arm movement for arms up, and automatically drops down after a few seconds of non-firing.

[Krzysztof z Bagien]

Zaptruder, on 18 February 2013 - 03:35 AM, said:

Needs a drawback, otherwise all mechs would play with their arms up.

Suggestion: no horizontal arm movement for arms up, and automatically drops down after a few seconds of non-firing.

No horizontal movement and slower convergence. Or some form of recoil maybe?

Edited by Krzysztof z Bagien, 18 February 2013 - 06:35 AM.

[Beeman]

If they intend on adding crouching, I see no reason why they wouldn't consider adding this as well. It'd be nice to look over from my cockpit and see my arm actually firing for a change.

[Alistair Winter]

Zaptruder, on 18 February 2013 - 03:35 AM, said:

Needs a drawback, otherwise all mechs would play with their arms up.

Suggestion: no horizontal arm movement for arms up, and automatically drops down after a few seconds of non-firing.

Something like this would be cool. As others have said, the battlefield is going to look like a zombie apocalypse unless there's a serious drawback.

I would suggest that it should only be possible while standing still, just to avoid the hordes of staggering zombies.

[Jaxwen]

Beeman, on 18 February 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

If they intend on adding crouching, I see no reason why they wouldn't consider adding this as well. It'd be nice to look over from my cockpit and see my arm actually firing for a change.

I must have missed the info on crouching. Where was that mentioned?

[Rawrshuga]

Nice idea. Not sure it can be done because of the issues regarding convergence.

(read in the upcoming mechs that there was an issue regarding a mech that had only one arm and the problems it could cause.)

Krzysztof z Bagien, on 18 February 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

No horizontal movement and slower convergence. Or some form of recoil maybe?

I think that's a good enough solution for the drawback. Simple implementation would be that arm weapons would now be treated as torso weapons. Though that might make another problem with people complaining that doing that reduces the skill of managing your convergence. *shrug*

But yeah, arm mounted weapons firing from the waist is annoyingly stupid. I hate having to expose my entire mech just to fire my arm mounted cannons. It's even worse now since they seem to have nerfed the arm rotation angle of the Cataphracts, to just a few degrees instead of a being able to move them all the way to the side.

So much for rotating away to back off and keep firing with my arm mounted weapons. Sigh. Have all the firing angle of a Gun Cat, but none of the ground clearance.

[Sigismund]

I can't resist posting it. For reference...





I have the same issues with my Centurion. I often find my cannon blasting into some building off to the side of my target or even into teammates. I reckon this would also open up some interesting uses for raising arms to protect your torso such as the left arm of the Centurion or Awesome. Another solution which would work amazing with moving arms is dynamic cross-hairs which move to show where your projectile is going to hit.

Also an example of of shielding using the arms.



"Kitty, kitty, here I come."

Anything would be better than what they have now. I want MWO to be the first Mechwarrior game to escape the animation rigidity of its predecessors and to really represent what we saw in those CGI videos from the 90's.

I have no doubt PGI wants to do this but like with other things, like Hand-to-Hand combat, whether or not it's easy is another thing.

[Laserkid]

I disagree with the OP. Having spacial awareness of your machine is vital and a part of the game. (IRL you drive a car right? Same situation.)

The current system will penalize any mech some of its arm mounted firepower for face hugging cover. This is also the quirks that individual mech chassis have that have to be learned by the pilot. Like the Hunchies shoulder mounted AC firing high while leading and the same with the Atlas' hip firing ballistic. As much frustration it causes, its satisfying for other players that have managed to compensate for it. Just like those light mechs w/ JJs learning to "pirouette" effectively, or SRM Catapults 1, 2 punching with their spaced box launchers.

[Sigismund]

Laserkid, on 19 February 2013 - 02:42 AM, said:

I disagree with the OP. Having spacial awareness of your machine is vital and a part of the game. (IRL you drive a car right? Same situation.)

The current system will penalize any mech some of its arm mounted firepower for face hugging cover. This is also the quirks that individual mech chassis have that have to be learned by the pilot. Like the Hunchies shoulder mounted AC firing high while leading and the same with the Atlas' hip firing ballistic. As much frustration it causes, its satisfying for other players that have managed to compensate for it. Just like those light mechs w/ JJs learning to "pirouette" effectively, or SRM Catapults 1, 2 punching with their spaced box launchers.

So your car comes with a neuro helmet that lets you use your own sense of balance and spatial awareness to give you human-like articulation? The devs didn't glue your arms to counter balance waist high cover. It's a technical and UI limitation that inhibits the original intent of the battletech writers and hopefully shouldn't be problem these days after some work. PGI have already confirmed hand-to-hand combat and crouching for the future so arm movement is not out of the question.

[Glaive-]

Jaxwen, on 19 February 2013 - 12:14 AM, said:

I must have missed the info on crouching. Where was that mentioned?

Near the end of Ask the Devs 31:

Bryan Ekman, on 08 February 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

Q: Will you be adding a crouch function?
A: Yes.

[Jaxwen]

Guess this topic will have to wait to be discussed later down the road. Great video ref points Sigismund, thank you.

Thanks for the crouch ref armyunit.

All things considered, I still find this to be an issue. I don't think zombie labeling for extended arms is any more of a naysay than choosing a label for the hiphugger disco arms that lock the elbows down low. If someone is going to perpetuate a negative label, I wouldn't much care. What I do care about is functionality. And locked elbows is a handicap that makes any mech with lower arm actuators handicapped over mechs that do not have them. My stalkers are far more effective than my atlases because of these aiming and hard point differences. If my Atlas RS could extend the arms it would then be competitive with the effectiveness of my Stalkers and as pointed out in the OP it could create an opportunity for the developers to offer a potential design variation that competes with the ECM option of other mechs.