44 replies to this topic

[Skribs]

Looking at the stats for it, I can't seem to find a reason to use it. If you want a ballistic weapon that does 10 damage, the AC/10 does pinpoint damage, which is better for stripping armor, and does it while taking up 1 less slot and ton. The scattergun is supposedly effective at a longer range, but really how much damage are you doing to the target at 540m with a spreadfire weapon?

If you want a spreadfire weapon, the SRM4 takes up 1 slot and 2 tons (2 and 3 with Artemis), which is much less than the LB-X, and it gains an additional 10 ammo per. The SRM6 is 2-3 crit slots and 3-4 tons. SRMs do 2.5 dmg each, so a SRM4 would do the same damage per blast, and gets 25 salvos instead of 15 with the LB-X. It is a bit slower, but an SRM-6 or dual SRM-4s would easily out-DPS a single LB-X, while still taking up significantly less space (2 crit slots and 3 or 4 tons vs. 6 crit slots and 11 tons).

I think the idea of the shotgun is cool and all, I'm just not seeing how it offers anything over the AC/10 for a 10-damage ballistic weapon or the SRM for a spreadfire short-range weapon. The only thing I could think of is pidgeonholing spreadfire into a ballistic slot, but a little foresight would go a long way to picking a missileboat for that role.

Am I missing something? Or is the only reason to get the LB-X the fun factor?

[Hex Pallett]

Use LBX for the following two occations: 1. When your target is very fast; 2. When yourself is very fast.

If you're a Medium hunting lights, LBX may come in handy. It is a general consensus that LBX needs a buff though.

[Skribs]

Okay so it's not just me that was thinking it was a bit weak.

[Vechs]

The LB10X is actually 1 ton lighter than an AC10. It's still a "meh" weapon.

I have used it effectively on a few builds, but it is very situational.

[Tolkien]

This is another situation where the translation from tabletop to real time is really difficult. The reason it could exist as a viable weapon on the tabletop is from 3 important points:

1) Weapons that did multiple hits per shot (LBX fires 10 pellets, of which 6+ typically hit in 6 points of 1 each) were nightmarish against vehicles and aerotech. This is because vehicles had a chance to be badly crippled or destroyed just by taking hits, even with armor still intact. Aerotech would take a critical hit every time they were hit, so an LB10 round would almost unquestioningly kill an aerospace fighter in a single shot.

2) On tabletop the damage did not drop with range! Sort of counter to the concept of a mech sized shotgun, but much better balance for mech combat. This is why it feels weak, as beyond about 250m it is very weak.

3) On tabletop the LB10 could fire cluster rounds or normal rounds. The problem with doing that here is that the AC10 would then have no reason at all to exist. This was sort of true on tabletop too, but there you usually played stock mechs from the record book, typically not custom stuff.

To make both the LBX ACs and pulse lasers more effective it might be nice that if a single pellet/pulse hits the target, all damage from the shot is spread over the target. At point blank they would be less murderous, but at range and against lights they would be so so much better.

[Hex Pallett]

Speaking of pulse lasers, I think I just came up with a probably smart idea. Group damage into single pulses. E.g. SPL has 3 damage, so give SPL a 3-pulse with one damage instantly dealed on target for each pulse. Same with MPL, give it a 3-pulse with 2 instant damage for each pulse, and LPL a 4-pulse with 2.5 for each pulse.

On LBX10, I tend to just give each pellet higher damage and make them spread a bit less.

[Richard Mongoose]

When I love the LB-10X: Ilya Muromets with 3 of them, and 3 MedLas. At brawling range there is no chance really of missing, I strip whole sides of armor (chest, back, left, right, etc) as opposed to needling down one section, and crits seem to just fall magically with every shot later.

When I hate the LB-10X: Everywhere else. It's just not a useful tool. 1 ton more and I use a pinpoint AC-10. 2 Tons less and I use an UAC5 (couple with 2 MedLas for same tonnage and single shot damage, with higher recycle times). Both options are more consistent and equipped for use beyond 100-150 meters.

Suggested LB-10X fix: Make it a pin-point accurate weapon like other ACs, buff damage to 12, and make rounds deal splash damage to adjoining armor sections for a portion of total weapon damage so that Main Hit does 6 damage, then each connected section takes an equal portion of the remaining damage.

Example: LB-10X hits a mech's left arm. The arm takes 6 damage, the left torso front and rear takes 3 damage a piece.
Example 2: Hit the Center Torso front for 6 damage, then the head, left front and right front torsos take 2 damage each.

Just a rough idea for a solution, and I agree that for most uses and situations the LB-10X, as it is now, is a poor choice.

Edited by Richard Mongoose, 18 February 2013 - 03:05 AM.

[PPO Kuro]

LB 10X AC, only reason for using it? Shooting those annoying light mechs up close.

That and on the Centurion you can place the weapon on it's arm which gives me better angles for shots from this weapon.

For example, I can shoot stuff that's above or below me. Had a battle few days back where all my weapons where on my torso, then the mech I was trying to killed jumped up on a building and I couldn't shoot him anymore ><

[Khobai]

LB10Xs arn't the best weapons but theyre not useless either. I use two LB10Xs and two SRM6s on my Atlas-D and it can go toe-to-toe with anything other than an SRM6 cat or Stalker 5M.

[apostateCourier]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: If you want a shotgun, take SRM6's. They're more efficient in tonnage (including heat sinks), crits, and do more potential damage per shot (15 vs. 10).

[Budor]

I use 2 on the Atlas for lols sometimes.

[Zoccola]

Couple of things: at this point in the time line the LB-10X, the UAC5 (or any of the UACs) and ER weapons should not exist. The LB-10X is an advanced version of the AC10, which is supposed to fire slugs or pellets. If PGI were to implement that, there would be no reason to take an AC10 ever.

When all the UAC and LB weapons come out, the regular AC weaponry will be scare (kinda like the AC5 and AC10 now - with the exception of a few builds.)

As for the LB-10x in its current form, its great on an Ilya where you can mount 3. Very brutal in close range. A DDC atlas can mount 2 and 3 srm6s and obliterate anything at close range. It is a different weapon from the other AC weaponry as its a crit seeker. It already has more chances to crit a target, and I am hoping will it will be buffed in the next patch or the following one, to have increased crit chance.

when fightning under 100m, the only thing scarier than this gun is an AC20 and the SRM6 with Artemis IV.


On a slightly related note: I cant wait to see the Daishi's with 4x UAC20. OP Clan is OP.  

Edited by Zoccola, 18 February 2013 - 06:32 AM.

[Stringburka]

This is a good build using one. But yes, it's circumstantial and could use a slight buff.

And on timeline, MWO is 3048, LB-10X comes around the IS in 3035, as does the UAC-5, and the ER Large Laser in 3037.

The other LB's, UAC's and ER lasers are later though, at least 10 years from now.

[Mechteric]

Its already been said by others but I would certainly reiterate that its only really useful on fast mechs against fast mechs. After that you will see reduced effectiveness to some degree, but I would certainly profess that you should not mount this weapon on a mech that travels less than 90kph or so simply because of how close you need to be to use it.

[JoeKano]

It just looks so cool when it splats on a mech I love that effect!!

[Kingdok]

I'm sure you will go back and look at the stats again - and see that LBX10 fits some places where the AC10 cannot (like stacked next to another LBX10 in the RT of your Atlas). It is lighter, smaller, causes less heat. I thought it fired faster, too, but Smurfy says not. I don't care about that too much, though.

Yes, the SRMs have a higher damage to tonnage ratio, but they also self-destruct at 270 meters. LBX10, whether you believe it or not, can cause damage well beyond that range.

I load triple SRM6 and double LBX10 in my Atlas, group them together, and use them as a gigantic double-barreled shotgun on anything that crosses my path. The sound alone is worth the drop in long-range effectiveness. It is truly a BOOMstick...

[Stringburka]

One clear benefit of LBX to SRM is that they are MUCH better at catching birds in flight. That is, ravens.

While their damage isn't great, getting hit by even half of the bullets of a 2xLBX-atlas will make me think twice about my tactics against it, as a light pilot. Regular SRM's I'm not usually scared of unless I run headlong into a splatcat or similar that has at least 4xSRM6. Because while they might hit me once, if I survive that and know about it, they won't hit me again easily.

[1453 R]

The LBX also has the benefit of being friggin' awesome to use. In its current state it's not as effective as an ordinary AC/10, no, but considering how much I just flat-out enjoy feeding folks shotgun blasts from the shoulder of my Flame, I've decided not to care. Mixing it with SRMs goes a long way towards redressing its weaknesses, as well - some folks see this as just camouflaging a bad weapon with a similar-but-good one, but after running an LBX/SRM-4 configuration on my Flame for quite a few matches, I can say that I see a noticeably higher proportion of component destructions than with my non-scatterblast designs.

The strength of the gun is that it'll hit whatever weaknesses your allies may have opened up in an enemy. Certainly you can also do that if you have phenomenal aim, but half the time I consider myself as having done well if I can get my guns on center mass, let alone pick out a specific component. That LBX/SRM spread on me Flame lets me be less concerned with pinpoint targeting and more concerned with keeping my fat Dragon self intact and moving correctly, whilst also picking at any holes my allies have left in the enemy by virtue of hitting everything at once.

Heh...it may just be an extraordinarily fun cover for my own lack of skill, but frankly, that doesn't mean I can't enjoy the hell out of it.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Also theres a topic in the forums somewhere where they discuss the fact that which mech you mount it on -and the barrel of their default Autocannon- adjusts the spread of the LBAC10
You apparently get much less spread -and better ranged damage in effect, firing out of a narrow ac2 barrel, than out of say, an Atlas or Hunchback's ac20 barrel.

[PapajIGC]

The only 2 builds you should ever run LB10X-ACs in, and one of them you shouldn't run ever....unless your sole intention is to troll the **** out of people. And the other's sole intention is to kill other Atlas'...assuming you're allowed to get close enough to them.

Red-neck Muromets
D-DC Super Brawler