18 replies to this topic

[Circumnavigate]

Hey does anyone know if you can mix a double heat sink with a single? Sometimes I don't have the slots left over for a double.

Thanks.

[Thawk]

Nope

[Konril]

Double and single heat sink systems are incompatible with each other. If you upgrade to doubles, you can only use doubles. Any single heat sinks on your machine will be removed during the upgrade process.

[Stingz]

The first 10 Engine DHS (250+), is the full 2.0. There isn't any need for SHS with what equals 20 built in.

[Flapdrol]

Stingz, on 17 February 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

The first 10 Engine DHS (250+), is the full 2.0. There isn't any need for SHS with what equals 20 built in.

True, pretty lame system imo, just makes mechs 1500000 cbills more expensive.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Stingz, on 17 February 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

The first 10 Engine DHS (250+), is the full 2.0. There isn't any need for SHS with what equals 20 built in.

There are some builds (usually in Assault class mechs) that mount 30+ HS, for those you REALLY do not want double, as you do not have the bulk to spare at that point.

-Edited for typo

Edited by Shar Wolf, 17 February 2013 - 11:39 AM.

[Flapdrol]

Shar Wolf, on 17 February 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

There are some builds (usually in Assault class mechs) that mount 30+ HS, for those you REALLY do not want double, as you do not have the bulk to spare at that point.

-Edited for typo

example? because for the equivalent of 30 total heatsinks you only have to mount 7 double heatsinks in the mech (provided you have a 250 engine, often you'll run a 300 so you only have to find space for 5)

[Alaskan Nobody]

I will admit, my knowledge of the bigger mechs comes mostly from Mechwarrior 2, and I wish my memory was good enough to cite builds from a game about 13 years old, but it is not.

But it even then you had Heatsinks IN your engine and it seems fairly realistic that in that game where DHS took only 2 slots, did more heat dispersion, and there were many builds that still could not afford the space - with them taking 3 slots in this game, and doing less heat dispersion there are builds that can even less afford the space.

-In your defense, that was with Clantech, which runs hotter, so higher Heatsink values are required, so I very well may be wrong for this games mechanics

Edited for Typo.

Edited by Shar Wolf, 17 February 2013 - 12:37 PM.

[Flapdrol]

Well in this game you're probably better off with doubles in pretty much anything.

in-engine sinks count as 2.0 if you have double heatsinks, rest of the doubles count as 1.4, since you're probably using a 250 or higher engine you'll need to spend 10 tons and 10 slots just to "catch up", but you could've fitted 3 doubles in that space, so you need another 4 singles, in which could fit you another double.

by the time the singles get you better dissipation there will be no weight left for weapons. If there's weight left with a double heatsink build there's a good chance you can upgrade the engine and get another slot and more speed and agility.

[Circumnavigate]

Shar Wolf, on 17 February 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

my knowledge of the bigger mechs comes mostly from Mechwarrior 2, and I wish my memory was good enough to cite builds from a game about 13 years old, but it is not.

LOL, MW 2 is 13 years old? That game came out in the mid 90s not 2000.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Sorry, about that then - I'm a little fuzzy headed from the cold medicine - If you feel the need to laugh at what I post- feel free, I'm surprised it made as much sense as it did.

And I'm begining to regret posting in the first place >.<

[Nathan Hawk]

Ok, with the way the system works, if you only have around 4-6 single heatsinks in a mech, upgrade to double. the engines internal heatsinks are also upgraded, pretty much giving you more options on tonnage and slots.

If you have around 10 extra heatsinks, then that where things get tricky, as your starting to use more slots per tonne for double than when using single heatsinks. but if your slots allow it...go for it...you wont end up with as many heatsinks as before...but the extra tonnes you free up can be used for better weapons, which yea might end up lowering your heat efficiency, but your getting more bang for your buck. and keeping the heat efficency in the same area as before.

if you're using more than 10 heatsinks, generally you should never upgrade....too many slots are taken up and you end up with a mech that has too much tonnage available...but no slots.

[Flapdrol]

Nathan Hawk, on 18 February 2013 - 02:49 AM, said:

if you're using more than 10 heatsinks, generally you should never upgrade....too many slots are taken up and you end up with a mech that has too much tonnage available...but no slots.

If you're running a 250 engine with 10 extra singles you can upgrade to doubles and have the same performance even when installing 0 extra sinks.

[Nathan Hawk]

Flapdrol, on 18 February 2013 - 04:52 AM, said:

If you're running a 250 engine with 10 extra singles you can upgrade to doubles and have the same performance even when installing 0 extra sinks.

i of course meant additional heatsinks....making the total 20...just to make sure i was understood

[Ragor]

Shar Wolf, on 17 February 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

I will admit, my knowledge of the bigger mechs comes mostly from Mechwarrior 2, and I wish my memory was good enough to cite builds from a game about 13 years old, but it is not.

But it even then you had Heatsinks IN your engine and it seems fairly realistic that in that game where DHS took only 2 slots, did more heat dispersion, and there were many builds that still could not afford the space - with them taking 3 slots in this game, and doing less heat dispersion there are builds that can even less afford the space.

-In your defense, that was with Clantech, which runs hotter, so higher Heatsink values are required, so I very well may be wrong for this games mechanics

Edited for Typo.

As you posted already, this was Clantech.
Clan DHS only require 2 slots, the IS equivalent requires 3 slots.
That's it.

[Stingz]

Nathan Hawk, on 18 February 2013 - 02:49 AM, said:

Ok, with the way the system works, if you only have around 4-6 single heatsinks in a mech, upgrade to double. the engines internal heatsinks are also upgraded, pretty much giving you more options on tonnage and slots.

If you have around 10 extra heatsinks, then that where things get tricky, as your starting to use more slots per tonne for double than when using single heatsinks. but if your slots allow it...go for it...you wont end up with as many heatsinks as before...but the extra tonnes you free up can be used for better weapons, which yea might end up lowering your heat efficiency, but your getting more bang for your buck. and keeping the heat efficency in the same area as before.

if you're using more than 10 heatsinks, generally you should never upgrade....too many slots are taken up and you end up with a mech that has too much tonnage available...but no slots.

Good thing every 25 past 250 gives another slot for heatsinks in the engine. The Clans don't even use SHS at all.

[Alaskan Nobody]

They did in Mech2 at least, I've got the manual right here - every Assault listed has singles, and some of the heavies.

[Omar Ravenhurst]

In my experience, about the only circumstance you would use single over double is financial. I have 20 mechs, all with dhs. If you're only going to need 15-20, then it's an absolute no brainer. You get to buy weight and space for a few thousand cbills. If you need 30+, then it's also a no brainer. You can either put 20 tons/spaces of SHS on your mech or you can put 21 spaces/7 tons of DHS. Unless you're maxed out in engine, the weight savings should allow you to go to a significantly larger engine, allowing more internally mounted heatsinks. On larger mechs, DHS is the highest return for weight savings. On smaller mechs, it's second only to XL engines. Combine the two and you can put a big engine and lots of DHS for less weight and similar space.

[Splinters]

It's very hard to come up with an assault mech that will use more than 28 single heat sinks without a heavy laser build that has an XL engine. here's the best I could come up with for an Atlas 7-RS. As you can tell I ignored all missle and ballistic hardpoints to optimized around the 4x ER-PPC's but this doesn't seem more effective than going with LL's and SRM's/LRM's.

It can be done. I was comparing the heat capacity of the DHS' 2.0 setup as well so the 36 single heat sinks will give you a total of (30+36) 66 max heat, vs a DHS setup of 18 that will offer (30+ 36) of 66 max heat.The next comparison is heat dissipation ability.

36 SHS will give you -3.63 heat per second (hps)
18 DHS will give you (-0.2*10 + -0.14*8) = -3.12 hps

Effectively it seems like you need around 31 single heat sinks to exceed an 18 DHS capacity mech so as you can tell it is almost impossible for most mechs to mount 31 single heat sinks as an effective build technique. Therefore go DHS every time if you can afford it. If someone can show me a build that needs SHS vs DHS I would be interested to see why.

-S