169 replies to this topic

[Vassago Rain]

RiceyFighter, on 18 February 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

I think it just needs a weight reduction. Maybe 1 or 2 tons less. Makes them stack with better weapons.

They can't do this, because it screws with the stock builds, and the math.

[DocBach]

Vassago Rain, on 18 February 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

They can't do this, because it screws with the stock builds, and the math.

It's already a ton off of the standard AC/10. It's suppose to be the more versatile replacement, and should have the ability to use slugs. I'd say to get it some sort of incentive to use cluster shots, slugs should do the standard 10 damage, but cluster shots should see each pellet get a boost in damage, at the very least an increase to damage to critical items, so it has something to offer more than massed SRM fire, which currently is a much better anti-equipment system.

[Vassago Rain]

Leetskeet, on 18 February 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

I remember back in closed beta when I was making this topic

Might as well not bother, it has a deceptive 10 in the name that tricks the weak into thinking that it has to do 10 damage.

b-but I do so well in my triple LBX Muromets and my double LBX Atlas!

It's like the great FF armor debate.

B-b-b-but, guys, it already says it increases armor, so why are you whining?

People don't understand how the game works.

[LaserAngel]

DocBach, on 18 February 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

It's already a ton off of the standard AC/10. It's suppose to be the more versatile replacement, and should have the ability to use slugs. I'd say to get it some sort of incentive to use cluster shots, slugs should do the standard 10 damage, but cluster shots should see each pellet get a boost in damage, at the very least an increase to damage to critical items, so it has something to offer more than massed SRM fire, which currently is a much better anti-equipment system.

Machine gun, along with improvements to the LB 10-X's ability to get massive criticals on exposed equipment is coming some day, some day... Along with slugs and selectable ammunition.

[RiceyFighter]

Vassago Rain, on 18 February 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

They can't do this, because it screws with the stock builds, and the math.

They are going to have to do something, for a ton more I can use AC 10 which is vastly superior than LBX 10 in terms of pin point damage and range. Also 2 tons less can mount you Ultra 5 and again, better pin point damage and range.

[Symbiodinium]

Vassago Rain, on 18 February 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

They can't do this, because it screws with the stock builds, and the math.

What math? There are currently only 2 stock builds that use an LB10-X, the CN-9D and CTF-3D, that's an easily solvable problem.

[Ravennus]

Vassago Rain, on 18 February 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

They can't do this, because it screws with the stock builds, and the math.

I still don't get this.

Why.... why why WHY do stock builds matter? Why do they have to match up 100% with TT values?

A good example is the Large Pulse Laser. The recent heat buff made it usable, but many people (including me) think that reducing the weight to 6 tons would help it occupy a sweet spot between the Large Laser and PPCs.

But when it is brought up, many of the initial rebuttals are "because it would mess with the stock mechs".

I asked why this was an issue in the other thread, and no one could tell me.
I'm simply curious, but I can't seem to get a straight answer. :/

[Vassago Rain]

Ravennus, on 18 February 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

I still don't get this.

Why.... why why WHY do stock builds matter? Why do they have to match up 100% with TT values?

A good example is the Large Pulse Laser. The recent heat buff made it usable, but many people (including me) think that reducing the weight to 6 tons would help it occupy a sweet spot between the Large Laser and PPCs.

But when it is brought up, many of the initial rebuttals are "because it would mess with the stock mechs".

I asked why this was an issue in the other thread, and no one could tell me.
I'm simply curious, but I can't seem to get a straight answer. :/

Because muh sacred canon.

[ConnorSinclair]

Vassago Rain, on 18 February 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

Because muh sacred canon.

PGI sure does cherry pick whats TT canon and not.

25% boost on SRM

80% boost on LRM

Double armor

Insane heat

DERP.

[Scorcher One]

Quote

PGI sure does cherry pick whats TT canon and not.

PGI sure did a lot to destroy the game. They made it completely imba, cause of some with small ones did shout ....

[Taemien]

One way to fix the LBX is to make it fire a single projectile. This round would be slightly slower than the AC10 (900, 950, or 1000m/s). When impacting a target the round explodes into the number of pellets that it is rated for (in this case, 10). The pellets should deal damage all over the mech and deal about 1.4-2.0 damage per pellet. The impact site would take the majority of the pellets so that there is an incentive to aim for specific locations. But of course with the added damage (assuming 2.0/pellet), you'll deal about 7-12 damage to the intended location and 8-13 damage spread out across the mech causing considerable collateral damage.

Firing up to and at maximum effective range will still result in the same effect as if you fired up close (assuming you can hit). But firing beyond would reduce the damage of the pellets which would in turn reduce the chances of knocking out a critical system.

[Velba]

DocBach, on 18 February 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

That's only if the location is completely stripped of armor, and all of the LB-X pellets hit the same location. My favorite way to destroy critical slots and equipment is to cleave the entire location off with a gauss or AC/20 round.

The most useful feature of the LB10-X (that we don't have in the game yet) is that it can use standard slug shots as well, and serves as an AC/10 that weighs one ton less.

F**K you Doc, go touch your caduceus!!

De La Fresniere, on 18 February 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

Each pellet tries for a crit, meaning if you get a lot of pellets in an exposed section you're practically guaranteed a crit (likely multiple crits). Yes.

But then, math.

While an AC/10 has a 42% chance of breaking an item on any hit to an exposed section, the LB10-X's guaranteed crits will be spread among all items in that section. Say you get all 10 pellets to hit an unarmored section (lol, good luck with that), you'll normally get 6 points of crit damage (you're highly unlikely to get 10, and even less likely to get all 10 of those points of damage to a single item) meaning, while you're guaranteed crits, you're also guaranteed to *not* destroy anything. Except maybe a Gauss... assuming it hasn't been properly padded with its own non-explosive ammo.

There is no good way to use that weapon because... well, there's no good way to use that weapon.

EDIT: because "exposide" is not a word. I think. I don't speak English.

Sifright, on 18 February 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

....

>Crits 10 times....

>except it doesn't.

>Does 1 damage a crit.

>doesn't break anything

>worse than using an SRM6

>I laughed at you.

MustrumRidcully, on 18 February 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:

Read this fracking guide: http://mwomercs.com/...-a-brief-guide/

And then come back here. You understand how critical hits work in the Table Top game, but you definitely don't understand how they work in Mechwarrior Online.

Edit:

Apparantly, this is me:

As for you other three, I only fire my LB-10X Inside of 100m 80m if I can help it. I also only fire at unarmored sections. I commonly hit 5-10 in one section. I do this because I run my LB-10X in combo with 2xLRM5 and 2xML(CN9-D). I've made kills with the LRM's, as I only fire those at unarmored mechs outside of 180m. I usually sit around 200m from the team's Assault, or LRM boat or 150m when they have ECM. I then pepper mechs. It's not a high DMG build by any means but it's a lot of fun.

[Renthrak]

Well, this thread has devolved to a handful of people making serious comments, and the rest resorting to "It's wrong because I disagree with it", or the classic "Other games do it, so PGI is evil if they don't".

If you aren't going to make a reasoned argument, you're wasting everyone's time.

[Novawrecker]

Kabum, on 18 February 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

The weapons as it is know is quite useless!

One of the most incorrect posts I've seen on this forum to date.

LB doesn't need an increase in damage to make it more effective. It needs to start being capable of firing both round types to unlock it's true potential. However, the way the weapon currently works serves as a sweeper weapon than an actual damage dealing one.

[Grand Ayatollah Kerensky]

There's no way around it: the LBX 10 needs to be able to put out more damage for its tonnage as compared to SRMs. Right now there is no reason to take an LBX 10 if you can take SRMs or an AC/10.

Edited by Narcisoldier, 18 February 2013 - 06:41 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

Renthrak, on 18 February 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:

Well, this thread has devolved to a handful of people making serious comments, and the rest resorting to "It's wrong because I disagree with it", or the classic "Other games do it, so PGI is evil if they don't".

If you aren't going to make a reasoned argument, you're wasting everyone's time.

We're trying to convince the crit seek and FF armor crowd that neither works. It's futile.

[Roland]

Taemien, on 18 February 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

One way to fix the LBX is to make it fire a single projectile. This round would be slightly slower than the AC10 (900, 950, or 1000m/s). When impacting a target the round explodes into the number of pellets that it is rated for (in this case, 10). The pellets should deal damage all over the mech and deal about 1.4-2.0 damage per pellet. The impact site would take the majority of the pellets so that there is an incentive to aim for specific locations. But of course with the added damage (assuming 2.0/pellet), you'll deal about 7-12 damage to the intended location and 8-13 damage spread out across the mech causing considerable collateral damage.

Firing up to and at maximum effective range will still result in the same effect as if you fired up close (assuming you can hit). But firing beyond would reduce the damage of the pellets which would in turn reduce the chances of knocking out a critical system.

Why are people suggesting crazy town solutions like this?

Increase the damage per pellet to at least 1.4.. most likely, closer to 2.
Problem solved.

This isn't a super complex problem that requires some kind of quantum mechanical solution. Up the damage. Done.

[MustrumRidcully]

ConnorSinclair, on 18 February 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

PGI sure does cherry pick whats TT canon and not.

25% boost on SRM

80% boost on LRM

Double armor

Insane heat

DERP.

Well, the thing they don't cherry pick - mech configurations. They may cheat on the direction weapons are facing, but crit, tonnage, that's holy.

[Ravennus]

MustrumRidcully, on 19 February 2013 - 12:21 AM, said:

Well, the thing they don't cherry pick - mech configurations. They may cheat on the direction weapons are facing, but crit, tonnage, that's holy.

But..... WHY???

I have never seen an explanation. Is there a blog post or something somewhere?

[Vassago Rain]

Ravennus, on 19 February 2013 - 12:26 AM, said:

But..... WHY???

I have never seen an explanation. Is there a blog post or something somewhere?

Because it'd be a lot of work to alter every single stock mech they're gonna use, and every single gun, to have new tonnage and critical slots.

So it's better to balance them in other ways.