30 replies to this topic

[Tipps]

Personally I don't mind that I can't get locks with LRM or SSRM(I'm not a huge missile person though, so I could be biased). It Does seriously make me consider taking a TAG laser if I have the room for on though. It makes the TAG laser feel more useful. I do think we should still be able to target and broadcast the enemy positions to our teammates when we have LOS though.

[WinnieTheWhor]

+1 on the post about the official Battletech statement.

[DocBach]

To be fair, the developers of Battletech said they give PGI full blessing to make whatever changes they need to, to make sure MWO is fun. However, a lot of different polls from the forums have revealed a large percentage of players don't believe ECM's current form has made the game more fun, in fact they end up showing that the general population finds ECM to have made the game less fun.

[Wildstreak]

Syllogy, on 18 February 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

Many people disagree.

Incorrect.

ECM Stealth is the main culprit and what causes the problem.
Let's look at the other non-weapon systems:

BAP: somewhat useful unless ECM is employed by the other team. However a BAP unit is supposed to be able somehow to detect the jamming. I have run BAP and not seen anything that shows this.
TAG: useful but only if you can hold the beam on target. Since that is not easy, that keeps TAG in check from being too good.
NARC: not useful because of the short range and small ammo plus ECM blocks it. NARC should have gotten a boost before ECM did.
Command Console: other than add a module slot (from what I hear) does nothing. Needs a boost.

Since ECM is described as preventing guided weapons, all that was needed was to prevent lock-ons, no Stealth required. What the Stealth effect is seems more like the BT Stealth Armor/Null Signature System but WITHOUT the penalties of taking up criticals and causing heat so that's BETTER than those two systems, the first available in 3063, the second being LosTech.

You can tell when something is TOO GOOD when people post about wanting it on at least 1 variant of every Mech type in the game, you can find such discussion under certain Trebuchet topics. That also proves ECM Stealth is OP.

In a shooter, everything should have a purpose and be useful, sometimes countered but still useful. Currently in the non-weapon systems, ECM is too good, TAG is OK, BAP seems to work fine even with ECM countering and the other two systems stink. Really there needs to be a broader discussion not only about the OP of ECM Stealth but also how to give purpose to NARC and Command Console.

[-Seneschal-]

If you really want to leave ECM the way it is in terms of offensive effects then fine, but it should have a DRAMATIC negative effect on the mech using it while it is active.

[Asmudius Heng]

Agree again with the idea ECM should simply not give information when able to be locked on. No damage readouts, no weapons, no chassis type etc.

This is more useful than you think - and then if it still doesnt have enough oomph i suggest it could make locking on take a little bit longer, or make the detection range shorter (unless you have BAP).

Also the negating of artemis bonus, NARC bonus,and BAP lock on bonus - all these things are fine and worthwhile

This is more balanced for a 1.5 ton peice of equipment.

Once you do this - then you can make SSRMs and LRMs work differently so they are not so powerful (en masse)

[Sigismund]

focuspark, on 18 February 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

This is kind of funny, because for ECM to work the way it does (and yes, I'm gonna bring real physics into MW:O) it would have to emit a crap ton of EM, across the spectrum to interfere the way it does with everything. That means it would look a bit like a super bright strobe light to mech sensors... and as you know, trying to see past a strobe light in a dark room is nearly impossible (remember your eyes are sensors of visible light).

Given that fact: ECM should be the freak'n opposite of stealth. It should broadcast the position of the ECM mech. Sure maybe you cannot lock the *******, but you know where he is all the time.

This ^.

According to the BT rules all ECM really does is **** out *** loads of static, so much that it completely blocks the radio signals of anything in the way. If any of your systems are blocked by ECM it should either highlight the mech or least tell where the static is coming from.

TAG is a lifesaver against Atlas D-DC's but remember that even TAG gets countered when under ECM. Despite the fact it is explicitly immune to ECM under the BT Master Rules.

Taking lots of LRM's is a legitimate and very common mech design choice in Battletech. The Dervish, Hunchback 4J, Catapult, Trebuchet, Longbow, Archer, Crusader, Awesome 8R. Almost every second mech takes LRM's as a support weapon to boot so anything that deactivates LRM's would invalidate half the mechs in all of Battletech and cripple most of the rest.

My honest suggestion is that they nerf the ECM's stealth then nerf the LRM's damage and spread (more so for indirect fire) to better represent BT hit tables but increase the projectile velocity to make it a more useful for direct fire.

[SgtKinCaiD]

The problem actually is that you can beat ECM without bringing yourself more ECM than your ennemies. Plus, it's extremly overused in 8vs8 when you often encounter the ****** loadout 5 atlas, 3 ravens.

PS : sorry for my english.

[Alvor]

To summarize TAG should always work & Streaks/Regular LRMs should always work if using Canon BT/MW.

Number of (regular) missiles hit per salvo in current MWO is OP. On average only about 50%-60% should be hitting i.e. LRM20 average 12 missiles hit per salvo.

All this information was taken from http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page which is one of the best resources for Battletech information.

http://www.sarna.net...rdian_ECM_Suite

Guardian ECM Suite is typically used to shield allied units from such equipment by emitting a broad-band signal meant to confuse radar, infrared, ultraviolet, magscan and sonar sensors.[2] Affected systems include Artemis IV, C3 and C3i Computer networks, and Narc Missile Beacons. A Guardian can jam a Beagle Active Probe (or its Clan equivalent), but the probe-equipped unit will be aware of the jamming. The greatest drawback to the Guardian is its limited range 180 meters. Sensors can sometimes override this jamming, though by that point the enemy unit is already within visual range and can track the opposition with their own eyes.[2]

http://www.sarna.net...Angel_ECM_Suite

Angel ECM Suite is an experimental version of the Guardian ECM Suite operating on a broader spectrum and greatly advances ECM technology on the battlefield.
Game Rules
The Angel ECM Suite represents a great advance in ECM technology from the standard Guardian model. Angel suite completely blocks the following systems on enemy units: Artemis IV,Artemis V, Beagle Active Probes, Bloodhound Active Probes and their Clan equivalents, C3 Master Computers and C3 Slaves, Streak Missile Launchers and Narc missile beacons. Streak missiles may be fired at units affected by the device, but they function as standard missiles.
When using ECCM rules, the Angel ECM Suite counts as two ECM/ECCM units (depending on how it is set) for the purposes of determining the ratio of ECM to ECCM in a given area.

http://www.sarna.net...cquisition_Gear

Target Acquisition Gear (TAG) is an advanced targeting device for use by artillery spotters. The TAG unit works by firing an infrared laser beam to designate the target and transmits that data via a tight-beam laser communication system to the guidance systems of friendly "smart" bombs and missiles. TAG is compatible with systems such as Arrow IV Homing Missiles or LRM munitions.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Streak_SRM

Streak Missile Launcher Unlike a standard SRM whose shotgun effect may result in some misses and some hits, Streak guidance gives the lighter launchers the effective average firepower of the heavier and more wasteful SRM systems, but with considerably less variation in damage effects. The only disadvantages are that Streak launchers are incompatible with other missile target acquisition technologies such as the Artemis IV FCS and Narc Missile Beacon, their specialized ammunition is much more expensive, and some users are willing to accept partial hits rather than not be able to fire on demand.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/LRM

Long Range Missiles are designed to engage the enemy at great distances at the expense of damage dealt. Adapted towards the profusion of electronic jamming on the battlefield and the effectiveness of current armor designs, these missiles are capable of indirect fire and disperse over a smaller area than Short Range Missiles. Inner Sphere LRM launchers achieve this range by firing at a ballistic launch angle, making them less accurate at close range. Clan LRM launchers do not suffer from this effect, in addition to being smaller and more compact, thanks to their technological advantage. LRMs are highly upgradable, able to fire a variety of warheads and benefit from devices such as Artemis IV FCS.[1]

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/CBT_Tables

Number of Missiles Hit Table
Die Roll (2D6) Number of Missiles Fired
2 3 4 5 6 9 10 12 15 20
2 1 1 1 1 2 3 3 4 5 6
3 1 1 2 2 2 3 3 4 5 6
4 1 1 2 2 3 4 4 5 6 9
5 1 2 2 3 3 5 6 8 9 12
6 1 2 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 12
7 1 2 3 3 4 5 6 8 9 12
8 2 2 3 3 4 5 6 8 9 12
9 2 2 3 4 5 7 8 10 12 16
10 2 3 3 4 5 7 8 10 12 16
[u]11[/u] 2 3 4 5 6 9 10 12 15 20
[u]12[/u] 2 3 4 5 6 9 10 12 15 20

[Silverthorn75]

Nonsense, on 18 February 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

I find games with ECM fun. Frequently this complaint comes from players who want to play with 100% lock on weapons. Does this describe you?

I have a suggestion:

Wait until they make their planned changes to SSRMs...then re-evaluate how much you hate/enjoy ECM.

If ECM prevented LAser fire and Balistic fire you be complaing your *** off. Oh wait when net code did jsut that it was the LARGEST complaint pgi had according to pgi......hmmm..telling is it not?

PGI lost a lot of players because of ecm, they just don't play the game, very boring less tactics now.

Now for purests out there, sure it isn't TT, nor are ANY of the weapons we use ... That said, a Broken OP system is broken, When missles were OP they were fixed, When net code, fixed.. so yeah ecm needs to be changed BADLY. From a business model, the fact it has remained in game without a change or removal till it was repaired/modded is totally, nonsensical.

ECM is broken and OP, needs to be fixed, period.

Edited by xSilverthornx, 19 February 2013 - 08:47 AM.

[WinnieTheWhor]

Bump. Updated the original post. Feb.19, still feel like a walking peice of scrap metal in an Atlas.