30 replies to this topic

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Let's face it without voice chat it's pretty hard to communicate in combat. This means our scouts can't scout, the cavalry can't rescue anyone, and by the time you've typed out help at X# you're already dead. Since we're not getting voice chat for a while in all likelyhood and some people have trouble understanding voice chat due to hearing issues, are ESL, or have insomnia an are trying not to wake the missus, it's time we develop and promote a single unified short hand notation for the most common things we'd like to say in game.

I propose we develop a 3 part system to communicate this information quickly and effectively regardless of team. Obviously new players won't know it at first but they'll catch on eventually.

Here is my tentative proposed structure

Part 1: Action to be taken

Part 2: Location

Part 3: Modifiers

For example A1 at D5 need help could be

!d5A1 or just !d5 if getting shot at

To make this work we need an alphabet to represent our basic communication needs here are some I've proposed though I'm sure the rest of you will figure out more and I'll add them. Also, this is only a preliminary dictionary so more ideas and changes will be made if it improves the stucture and usability of the language. Once we've mostly got it set I'll make a post in the general guide section.

Actions

Attack=@D5T30 (Attack D5 in 30 seconds)

Capture=Cap__ (i.e. CapEB for cap enemy base or CapK for Capture Kappa)

Defend=D

Focus on ____=X (XA= focus fire on Alpha or XECM for focus on the ECM mech)

Flankers=FD5___ (We're being flanked by ___ at D5)

Help!= ! (!D5 for I need help at D5)

Hold=H

Move along _____ line: M_L (where _ is a number or letter of the line)

Retreat to ____=RLocation (RD5)

Save base=B

Snipe=S

Watch out=W (WD5LRM= watch out, LRM boats at D5)

General Location-

Enemy Base=EB

Grid location= d5,h6, etc

Capture point= First letter of the capture point (i.e, kappa=K)

Caustic Locations

3 Line Valley=V or 3LV

Forest Colony Locations

Radio Tower=R

Ship=S

Tunnel=T

Frozen City Locations

Ridge=R

Tunnel=T

River City Locations

Lower City=L or LC

Upper City=U or UC

Modifiers-General

Assault mechs=AM

Atlas Speed (50 kph)=AS

Brawler=B

Cavalry (75-90 kph & 50+tons)=CM

ECM mechs=ECM

Fast Mechs (>90 kph)=FM

Heavy Mechs=HM

LRM boats=LRM

Light mechs=LM

Medium mechs=MM

Quickly=Q

Snipers=S

Specific mech designations

Atlas= AS7 or Atty

Awesome= AWS

Catapult=CAT

Cataphract= CTF or PHR

Centurian= CN9 or Cent

Cicaida=CDA, Cic, or Bug

Commando= COM

Dragon= DRG

Hunchback=HBK or Huch

Jenner= JR7

Raven=RVM or ECMR for ECM raven

Splat cat= SC or A1B

Spider=SDR

Stalker= STK

Trebuchet=TBT or Treb

Mechs may also be called by their model number if it matters (i.e. DDC, or 3L)

Edited by Narcissistic Martyr, 17 February 2013 - 06:46 PM.

[Taizan]

If only the chat wouldn't disappear after 2s and people would actually read it. Something like this could be done much more elegantly with a decent command menu, until then I'm not sure the system you are suggesting can work (Also typing means hand away from mouse which is not good).

V-2-2-1 = Defend B1
V-1-4-6 = Attack D6

etc.

[Cerebelli]

If we could actually get the majority of the community to use this, that'd be just damn awesome. But I doubt most people would even care to try and figure it out.

[NintenJoe]

Nah Im sorry but i cant help here. I try to type commands/ideas when possible on the field but its too slow and clunky. DEVS need to add voice chat into the game or i have a feeling things will not go well.

I for one use TeamSpeak3 but even that feels lame...

[Lukoi Banacek]

Now you're asking the casual population that's too casual or disinterested in Pugging via the near ubiqitious free TS options out there to learn a ******* code to type into a chat window that might only stay up a couple of seconds before fading out?

Interesting idea, good luck getting that to catch on.

[Tuku]

I like your idea but asking pugs to learn this is going to be about as hard as getting many pugs to get on TS, Mumble, or vent

[IQwrassler]

Great post, OP!

I think your proposed system is fantastic. Really, anyone with a small measure of common sense can interpret your shorthand without even needing a key to figure it out. Only a handful of your commands are really needed 90% of the time, and the notation is quite logical.

I would stick with the variant shortform for mech identification as i doubt two 'mechs in this game will have the same variant code (ex. 2A = CDA-2A, 2X = CTF-2X). Also I think your list of terms could be truncated a little (radio tower??), but these are minor quibbles.

I have never played in a 'premade' of more than two, but I have always assumed that legit teams use a shorthand language system when communicating in voice (where actions, targets, and locations are given using abbreviated terms, under a team-understood code). Many such language systems are used in navigation, sports, military, and many other applications where brevity, clarity, and coordination are demanded.A system such as yours is also not limited to text chat, it could easily be voice as well.

Your system, however, is so easy and simplistic that I believe any player could interpret it after a small amount of exposure and be able to reply given the desire. Most players (myself included haha) clog up the chat with non-constructive banter though, and the enemy team could spam messages to mess up the chat, so measures would need to be taken to make this system ideal, but it is interesting and possibly pracitcal nonetheless.

In practical application, I have doubts such a system would take off, but I think you're on the right track to helping teams coordinate better.

Edited by IQwrassler, 17 February 2013 - 08:35 PM.

[Team Leader]

Tuku, on 17 February 2013 - 07:18 PM, said:

I like your idea but asking pugs to learn this is going to be about as hard as getting many pugs to get on TS, Mumble, or vent

If they can't download free programs... They won't be able to basically learn a second language for an online game. The only real possible solution is integrated voice chat. Besides, they're [the average pug players] not going to be coming onto the forums to learn this... Sorry. Good work but it'll never happen.

[Ryvucz]

Although not a bad idea overall -

-using the same code type for more than one thing is a bad idea.

[Sagamore]

Some games, dota 2 and team fortress 2 come to mind, allow you to open a quick chat menu with the press of a button. From there you have a bunch of choices to notify your team of various things. If the interface was slick enough, you'd be able to quickly coordinate with your team without having to type it (or use the possibly-integrated voice chat). In Dota 2 your character actually says whatever you use with this menu as well as types it in the main chat area.

Edited by Sagamore, 17 February 2013 - 08:29 PM.

[Bad Karma 308]

"I am told that when they built the University of California at Irvine, they did not put in any sidewalks the first year. Next year they came back and looked at where all the students had trampled paths in the grass and put the sidewalks there." - Larry Wall (Developer of Pearl)

No matter how hard you try, anything you create can not be forced on a random community, especially this one. Like all language some words and phrases catch on and others fall fat. Instead, like the UC-Irvine quote, you should start looking at what is already developing and catalog it back to the community.

I have seen some short scripting already occurring in games, start looking there and then look to gradually expand upon it.

Edited by Bad Karma 308, 17 February 2013 - 08:46 PM.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Bad Karma 308, on 17 February 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:

No matter how hard you try, anything you create can not be forced on a random community, especially this one. Like all language some words and phrases catch on and others fall fat. Instead, like the UC-Irvine quote, you should start looking at what is already developing and catalog it back to the community.

I have seen some short scripting already occurring in games, start looking there and then look to gradually expand upon it.

I have been looking and while some abbreviations are being used there really isn't any tools in place to help those who have difficulty with voice chat (hard of hearing, ESL, no mic, keeping quiet so the wife doesn't find out, etc) communicate effectively. This of course applies to all PUGs at the moment but VOIP will change that sooner rather than later. So while I don't really care what system develops, I want to hasten the process a bit so it'll be in place somewhat before VOIP takes over so I and others who have a hard time with voice chat (or prefer to mute voice chat to silence the inevitable morons who will crop up) have a way to communicate effectively.

Ryvucz, on 17 February 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

Although not a bad idea overall -

-using the same code type for more than one thing is a bad idea.

A very good point I'll work on replacing the abbreviations that appear more than once. I should have it edited Tuesday evening sometime.

[Thirdstar]

Game specific shorthand organically evolves and most efforts to guide it fail. Take my word for it.

[Screech]

All I know is to sheep the moon.

[Felicitatem Parco]

The topic of this conversation, alone, is enough to generate the creation of new Merc Corps or friendly Communities.

The Death's Hand Brigade Corp has regular training sessions that often focus exclusively on the art of communication and information sharing. Developing a shared shorthand is a great way to give your team a significant advantage in the War of Information.

I like the idea - using the Mechs' official model IDs as abbreviations, predesignated abbreviations... heck, back in the day half of my keyboard was bound to teamchat commands when I played Team Fortress Classic... back when the original Half-Life Multiplayer was hot stuff... but the proposed protocol in the OP seems too detailed to be easily assimilated. The use of single character commands in a strung command structure often leads to confusion or misinterpretation.

In my opinion, strung abbreviated commands often work best with 3 letter abbreviations comprising at least half the command line, and limiting the single char-commands for in-between type usages.

[Death Mallet]

Here's some forum shorthand for ya:

TL;DR

[kuangmk11]

The best and most efficient that I have seen is the Tribes style "VGS" menu. you can have lots commands and its super quick. http://www.tribesasc...ice_Game_System
it was even better in the older tribes game where you could set waypoints or direct teammates to "attack my target"

[Galenit]

Taizan, on 17 February 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

If only the chat wouldn't disappear after 2s and people would actually read it. Something like this could be done much more elegantly with a decent command menu, until then I'm not sure the system you are suggesting can work (Also typing means hand away from mouse which is not good).

V-2-2-1 = Defend B1
V-1-4-6 = Attack D6

etc.

Tribes2, from 2001
Quickchat, like you mentioned, 3-4 keys for all orders to team or taunting enemy and stuff.
Rightclick on the battlemap opens choises for markers, like waypoint, defend and brings it highlighted to chat.
Rightclick on an enemy on the battlemap gives a marker and a chatline about attacking target x.
Rightclick on an ally or objekt brings choices like defend, follow, repair, guard,... and a marker and a chatline.
You could coordinate a tribes 2 32vs32 game without voice only over battlemapmarkers and quickchat.

A system like this will help, not everyone will or can use voice, but a simple quickchat and better battlemap will be used. VSD= plays "I will defend" and gives the chatline to the team.


Edit:
Have read kuangmk11 post, should have read it before posting ..... Shazbot!
Edit2:
Forget about that for every command over quickchat or battlemap a sound with the command was played too.

Edited by Galenit, 18 February 2013 - 02:38 AM.

[Inertiaman]

What's the hand signal for TL:DR?

I wish radio binds weren't lostech.

[ShadowDarter]

Lets not, simple language is the best, it wont confuse new players and make them go.

"What the hell is that guy on...." and ignore you compleatly.