70 replies to this topic

[Majorfatboy]

The last time I tried to use lrms, I kind of sucked with them, but have been meaning to give it another shot. I figure I'll try lrms out on the treb, but I'm really more interested in it purely because it's a jump capable medium. With the right loadout, it could make an interesting light blocker.

[Mercules]

Cache, on 19 February 2013 - 07:48 AM, said:

The source may be exaggerating a touch. I was playing 8's for over an hour last night with no lack of different opponents.

I don't think the source is exaggerating. I think they absolutely the only 8man groups around during European prime times. I was kinda joking around about that.

Even so the vast majority of the players are not playing 8 man right now. If we are talking about a mech's use we can't just jump into, "It won't be used that way in 8 man." The majority of players don't care.

[iminbagdad]

Jungle Rhino, on 19 February 2013 - 07:42 AM, said:

30 LRMs fired from 300m away with TAG/Artemis on the target will do far more damage than 80 LRMs fired from 900m away that mostly hit dirt.

For that reason I think the Trebuchet is going to be a very nice little mech. TAG + 2ML + 2 LRM15 w/5T ammp + 81kmph = profit

The problem is you will see the same thing you do now. People standing 4 ft away from the spawn point bitching that all teh noobes won't hold lock for them. Like every other mech if its in the hands of a good player it will do fine if not people will say it sucks.

[Mercules]

Arkmaus, on 19 February 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

Streaks are for people who sit down to pee.

Sexist much?

[Parnage Winters]

The fact that people seem to be ignoring just how strong highly mobile lrm platforms can be amuses me.

The biggest problem with the current idea of lrm boats is the fact some stalker or awesome moves at 60ish kph and can't position himself properly. He's easily tracked down by lights/heavies and ecm screwed.

Give that job to a fairly quick Treb instead. Now you have a fast, easy to reposition lrm support that can avoid and seek new fun fire angles on the enemy then quickly get the hell out of dodge.

I'd rather have that then some slow *** stalker that fires twice as many missiles at the cost of being a pain in the *** to protect due to it's lack of speed, mobility and inability to fire half the time due to position.

[Zynk]

Kdogg788, on 19 February 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

The Trebuchet is to be released in just of few short hours, of course, and reviewing its stock, canon variants, it appears that they all pack LRMs by default. It's pretty obvious that almost nobody will be using them for their Battletech role of medium class LRM support, and will instead attempt to utilize them as an alternative to the SRM packing Hunchback 4SP. It's how I intend to use this mech if I buy one, but does anyone going to use the by and large stock loadouts with LRMS? Over the past few months I've seen very few LRM packing mediums, as they don't seem viable in the context of this particular game.

-k

On maps now not so much but if Alpine Peaks and the other 12 man maps are big then a fast moving LRM med will be needed. Also a fast mover with JJ's would also be nice.

[Ashnod]

Hopefully Alpine will finally be large enough to persuade brawling.. Than a lrm trebuchet can use its speed and long range to take advantage of the terrain

[Arkmaus]

Mercules, on 19 February 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

Sexist much?

[Voridan Atreides]

Kdogg788, on 19 February 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

It's pretty obvious that almost nobody will be using them for their Battletech role of medium class LRM support, and will instead attempt to utilize them as an alternative to the SRM packing Hunchback 4SP.
-k

Unfortunatly yes. It will just be like the SRM Cat which is one of my least favorite mechs to go up against. They are freaking annyoing and are somtimes more numerous than ECM mechs. I however will be using my treb as a support mech as it should be used.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

When I'm doing 4-mans, my LRM Centurian is a real beast. I was with a guy, I think his name was Denelic in an ECM Cicada, that dude was the best at spotting. Would call out a designation and the rain would come.

I was doing 500+ damage a fight, and getting 2 kills fairly often.

If i hadn't already mastered Centurian's...I'm very tempted by the 'Buchet.

[Voridan Atreides]

Kdogg788, on 19 February 2013 - 07:28 AM, said:

Too much space devoted to LRMs though, and lights will tear you up.

-k

Its more of a mech to stay pretty close to your team when the lights come. You have the speed to bring them back to your group and than bye bye lights.

[Joseph Mallan]

Dervish
Apollo
Whitworth
Grim Reaper

medium Missile platforms besides the ones already in the game. That is only two of the TROs

[Tastian]

Elwood Blues, on 19 February 2013 - 07:44 AM, said:

LRMs are pretty rare in 8mans, though. It's pretty sad. Just not as effective against an organized team.

everything except DDCs, 3Ls, and a couple SRM and Gauss Cats are rare in 8 mans.

[Hammish]

Agreed with most of the above. Personally, I think the 4SP is about the only platform on which LRMS -are- viable.

If you absolutely must take a medium for whatever reason (RHOD drops, just like mediums, ect) they can excel in the role because it means you'll be facing another medium on the other side. I couldn't see taking an LRM Cat and having to 'pay' for it with a K2, A1 SRMcat or jack-in-the-box Phract on the other team.. but I could see (and have proven in the past) that a 4SP with XL255, 15-racks, 4 mlas and TAG can be equal to or better than a brawler configuration that'll get cut down quickly. You just have to stay on the move and get your angles right.. and be patient.

Especially if you end up in a heavier match. Assaults make such big, lumbering targets.

[Yankee77]

Elwood Blues, on 19 February 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

You are right. In PUG matches LRMs can still kill people because of a lack of organization, more new players, and no voice universal voice coms. Combine that with most pure LRM boats dropping with someone they know that can assist them and they can rack up high damage. In 8man drops you find out which weapons only work when you are relying on disorganization.

As said above, maybe in 12-mans they will come back. Maybe bigger maps will help too. On small maps they rely too much on inexperience and poor organization to be reliable.

Personally I think the lack of LRMs in 8-mans is mostly a function of ECM. With ECM getting wittled down (hopefully), I'm hoping it will become a more viable weapon system in 8-mans.

That said, I think LRMs should be seen as a support weapon only, not as your primary mech killer. This means you should not go around boating LRMs in 8-mans. Rely primarily on your direct-fire weaponry, and use your LRMs when you have good shots available (having TAG is really helpful there), or your allies present you with valid indirect fire opportunities.

For example, I often go around with PPCs and LRMs. I use my PPCs as my main weapons during the opening "potshot" phases of a fight (when people snipe in and out of cover, where LRMs wouldn't work even with no ECM), but when the push comes I will hang back 200-400 meters and engage with my PPCs AND my Tagged LRMs (if I can PPC them, then they're tagged). Indirect fire is usually only done when I get the signal from allies.

That's not to say boating LRMs is necessarily useless in 8-mans, but you definitely need to accept being in the "support role" only, focused on supporting a team optimized to use your LRMs (you'll need Taggers, and often you'll end up being used to suppress the enemy instead of slaughtering them like you would in PUGs).

That said, I fervently hope that larger maps and ECM balance changes leads to the LRM becoming more useful as a support weapon, as it is poorly balanced right now (especially in the tight urban maps, and with ECM as it currently stands).

Ultimately, LRMs should be a vital piece of "combined arms" in drops: a valuable support weapon that gives a team a meaningful edge without dominating the battlefield.

Thank you.

[Josef Nader]

iminbagdad, on 19 February 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

The problem is you will see the same thing you do now. People standing 4 ft away from the spawn point bitching that all teh noobes won't hold lock for them. Like every other mech if its in the hands of a good player it will do fine if not people will say it sucks.

I'm not concerned with how the bads handle the mech. I'm excited about what I can do with it.

[Cato Phoenix]

I am going to try a fast as hell tag-LRM mech. Not sure it will work, but we'll see. Trebuchet-ERPPC-Tag-LRM support swarm for 8 mans, anyone?

[Elwood Blues]

Tastian, on 19 February 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

everything except DDCs, 3Ls, and a couple SRM and Gauss Cats are rare in 8 mans.

There are a few more, but yes, you see a much more limited range of mechs in 8 mans. When you consider that the future of MWO is to encourage more organized drops for CW since we will be fighting over territory, this is a problem.

[Josef Nader]

Elwood Blues, on 19 February 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

There are a few more, but yes, you see a much more limited range of mechs in 8 mans. When you consider that the future of MWO is to encourage more organized drops for CW since we will be fighting over territory, this is a problem.

I think the classiest way to balance that is to reintroduce R&R and drop weight costs. Corps couldn't -afford- to run super-expensive drops unless they're holding vast stretches of the galaxy, and even then they have to draw resources from other parts of their territory.

[Thirdstar]

After reading this thread, you lot have actually convinced me to at least try out a fast Lurm boat with TAG.

What's the worst that could happen? I go back to my SRM build?