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Aliens In _My_ Battletech?


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#21 Kyone Akashi

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 02:35 PM

View PostPht, on 23 February 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

I suspect TPTB may have officially disavowed his book...
Nope, still canon. (I also like what they did with the Battletech cartoon - very clever! :D)

From how I understand, however, intelligent alien life is something deliberately kept mostly out of the setting, as the alternative might result in the focus shifting away from the eternal struggle between the various human factions, thus diluting the 'verse.

I kinda agree. There are many sci-fi settings where aliens and humans either co-exist or fight one another, and whilst I dearly like some of those, I will say that Battletech feels almost refreshingly different and unique.
I have no problem with something like the swamp people, though. Their low tech level prevents them from being capable to achieve any sort of greater relevance, or interact with humans on equal footing.

I could imagine one or two novels where they play a minor role (maybe where a corporation tries to capture and train them as forced labor, opposed by a bunch of activists, and somehow a merc company running security detail finds itself in the middle of a riot), but that's about it.

Edited by Kyone Akashi, 25 February 2013 - 02:38 PM.


#22 RL Nice

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 02:49 PM

I like to think that intelligent aliens do exist somewhere in the Milky Way (with advanced technology, not like the Tetatae), but humanity will never make contact any time soon (at least, as far as the game's timeline could possibly go) because they would clash thematically with the setting's established tone.

It's kind of like how you can set a historical drama set in the Middle Ages will never have any scenes of Aztecs (unless it's alternate history, in which case it isn't a historical drama, it's science fiction). That doesn't mean they don't exist and that contact will never be made. It just means they won't ever be featured in the time frame of the story because they're not relevant.

#23 Pht

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 05:30 PM

Ugh.

How is it that one jerk can retcon almost 40 years of comic book history of one of the most popular comics of all times...

and we can't get a single retcon of one of the most hated side-shows in the BTU... gah...

#24 Skylarr

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 05:56 PM



#25 RFMarine

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 06:02 PM

re: Hyperstar and Stellarwave in the first post. IMHO it would be better and more believable to explain the rise of comstar competitors as a result of either an alliance/merger between an IS company and a clan or maybe a theft of clan HPG tech. In the novels during the clan invasion if i remember correctly there are references about very frequent communication between the advancing wave of clans at the front line and the home clan worlds.

Clan HPG tech is probably gonna be easier to acquire plus clan tech castes actually know how to manufacture them

Edited by RFMarine, 25 February 2013 - 06:04 PM.


#26 MustrumRidcully

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 01:45 AM

View PostRFMarine, on 25 February 2013 - 06:02 PM, said:

re: Hyperstar and Stellarwave in the first post. IMHO it would be better and more believable to explain the rise of comstar competitors as a result of either an alliance/merger between an IS company and a clan or maybe a theft of clan HPG tech. In the novels during the clan invasion if i remember correctly there are references about very frequent communication between the advancing wave of clans at the front line and the home clan worlds.

Clan HPG tech is probably gonna be easier to acquire plus clan tech castes actually know how to manufacture them

This is an interesting idea.

I think one of my line of thought was something like this:
During the Dark Age, people desperately want their HPG systems working again. But ComStar doesn't deliver (at some places, they do, but not at enough). So other people get the opportunity to look at their holy workings. It would make sense for this to also include Clan scientists that understand the Clan HPG network. Heck, a "Clan" Company might be an interesting idea on its own. A Clan turning from a warrior-caste dominated system to a science-caste or rather and eventually into more of a mega-corporation rather than a clan could be very interesting. (Bringing some Cyberpunk into BT? Do we want that?)

#27 Stormwolf

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 01:51 AM

View PostMustrumRidcully, on 26 February 2013 - 01:45 AM, said:

This is an interesting idea.

I think one of my line of thought was something like this:
During the Dark Age, people desperately want their HPG systems working again. But ComStar doesn't deliver (at some places, they do, but not at enough). So other people get the opportunity to look at their holy workings. It would make sense for this to also include Clan scientists that understand the Clan HPG network. Heck, a "Clan" Company might be an interesting idea on its own. A Clan turning from a warrior-caste dominated system to a science-caste or rather and eventually into more of a mega-corporation rather than a clan could be very interesting. (Bringing some Cyberpunk into BT? Do we want that?)


I doubt that the Clans will ever again allow the scientists any power after the debacle with the Society.

#28 Alvor

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 02:44 AM

To summarize if using Canon BT/MW:
“Intelligent alien life forms are essentially absent in BattleTech.”

All this information was taken from http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page which is one of the best resources for Battletech information.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Alien

All alien species that were made up for the BattleTech universe, animals and plants alike.
Intelligent alien lifeforms are essentially absent in BattleTech, despite its nature as a science fiction universe. In 1988, game designer Jordan K. Weisman, who created the original BattleTech game and setting, noted in the introduction to the Shrapnel anthology:
"What I wanted was a universe that had a taste of the alien, but did not contain aliens."
Throughout the many novels, sourcebooks and other BattleTech publications there are numerous references to alien flora and fauna on various worlds, including various types of alien cattle, pets, fruits, produce or even diseases; however, they typically only provide background flair and do not play any significant role. BattleTech remains dominated by humans. Even the Clans, introduced as mysterious invaders, soon turned out to be humans whose culture had evolved differently over the past centuries. There are only two known instances where sentient alien lifeforms are mentioned:
In the novel The Sword and the Dagger, Ardan Sortek wakes up after having ejected from his destroyed BattleMech in the swamps of Stein's Folly and finds himself tied to a tree by primitive humanoid aliens (colloquially known as the Swamp people);
In the novel Far Country, the intelligent bird-like Tetatae species features prominently but their homeworld (Kaetetôã) is in an unknown location and the human protagonists who are stranded there cannot return to known space.
Pages in category "Alien species"
The following 75 pages are in this category, out of 75 total.

A
Agouti Rat
Agrat
Albion Vampire Bat
B
Blood Limpet
Blood Spirit (species)
Blue Snapper
Branth
Bucky Brown
Burrock (species)
C
Canopian Chihuahua
Clamp Leech
Cloud Cobra (species)
Coyote (species)
Crana
Crocale
Crowley Lizard Cow
D
Dagada
Denkaika
Desert lanik
Desert Mouse
Diamond Shark (species)
Draconian Skunk
Dune pup
Dune Rat
E
Eden Beaver E cont.
Eden Serpent
F
Fire Mandrill (species)
Fire-cicada
Fuster-lizard
G
Ghost Bear (species)
Godan
Goji
Goliath Scorpion (species)
Gyru
H
Hell's Horse (species)
Hodson's Flier
I
Ice Hellion (species)
J
Jacote
Jade Falcon (species)
Jardinian Fire Cat
Jewel Bass
K
Kountze Arctic Terror
[u]L[/u]
Lesallian Mailsloth
Lobo plumado
Lute Shrike
Lézard de tonnerre
[u]M[/u]
Megasaur
Mongoose (species)
Mottled Lemur
[u]N[/u]
Nibbler [u]N cont.[/u]
Night Boar
Nolan (species)
Nova Cat (species)
[u]O[/u]
Odessan Raxx
[u]R[/u]
Range-bull
Ranger Bull
Rock Gila
[u]S[/u]
Sand Cricket
Schrack
Sea Fox
Serpent siren
Shipeley Wheat
Skatha Ape
Smoke Jaguar (species)
Snow Raven (species)
Sourbug
Steel Viper (species)
Styk Rounder
[u]T[/u]
Tabiranth
Takooma
Tetatae
Trachazoi
[u]U[/u]
Ugmar
[u]V[/u]
Vrikk
[u]W[/u]
Winter Wolf

#29 MustrumRidcully

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 04:44 AM

View PostStormwolf, on 26 February 2013 - 01:51 AM, said:


I doubt that the Clans will ever again allow the scientists any power after the debacle with the Society.

I guess I'll have to research this debacle, but you shouldn't forget - we are talking about something happening during the Dark Age where communication was not that easy. It could very well be that it went unnoticed for a while by other members of the Clan, allowing a small splinter cell to amass power and influence so they cannot be brought down so easily. Especially if they are the "savior" for many planets. The "Cyberpunk" part of the idea enters here - imagine mercenaries being hired by businesses (not governments) that want their HPG network to function again so the interstellar trade works smoothly again. If these Clan Scientists can deliver, they will be protected. Of course, this may still lead to other debacles.

#30 IIurricane

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 01:38 PM

The question is, can you create a new threat without colliding with the established elements?
And of course, you might ask, should they ever make a new threat?
If the answer is no, how should the future of Battletech look like? Thousand and one Succession Wars or three hundred million clan invasions? Would that not be boring, even for a hardcore fan?
And no I am not an supporter of the Alien solution.

All I'm saying is, it is a difficult task to create something new without repeating itself. Especially in the Battletech Univerum because it has already been there so much.

#31 Skylarr

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 06:52 PM

BattleTech is finishing up Dark Ages now in its novels. I know they have plans for the future. But, I think they are scrambling to look for somethig new to keep everyone hooked.

Edited by Skylarr, 27 February 2013 - 06:53 PM.


#32 MustrumRidcully

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:05 AM

View PostIIurricane, on 27 February 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:

The question is, can you create a new threat without colliding with the established elements?
And of course, you might ask, should they ever make a new threat?
If the answer is no, how should the future of Battletech look like? Thousand and one Succession Wars or three hundred million clan invasions? Would that not be boring, even for a hardcore fan?
And no I am not an supporter of the Alien solution.

All I'm saying is, it is a difficult task to create something new without repeating itself. Especially in the Battletech Univerum because it has already been there so much.


One of the major elements for me in this take was to use the aliens as a new enemy, and to basically "reverse" the story of the Clan Invasion. Instead of the Inner Sphere being attacked and invaded, the Inner Sphere attacks someone else. To add some additional conflict potential and inner sphere infighting, I wanted the IS agressors to be tricked into attacking, and having a bit of conspiracy around it.

Another element was the idea of splitting ComStar. Which is kinda what already happened with the Blakists, but this along different lines. Instead of ideological differences, ecominical interests driving the conflict. ComStar was a major power for so long, suddenly sharing this power and wealth scares them, and drives them to do ... questionable things.

Also, rivals for ComStar can also drive technology. I don't know if it's too outlandish (compared to what? Aliens? BT standards), but imagine someone being able to build, say, a permanent "jump gate" allowing instantenous travel between planets. A belt of worlds connected by such gates would probably have significant economical advantages (provided the tech for the gates is cheap enough). There could be a race for developing this tech - but there is actually someone out there that already has it (the aliens?), and only ComStar knows.

It doesn't strictly require aliens, however. Apparantly, ComStar was still looking for lost Star League Outpusts. Maybe there is actually a secret/forgotten group of colonies out there. And they have something that is worth having, maybe the jump gate. The challenge is making it "believable" that there is actually something out there that is capable of fighting back. It seems more likely for that to be an entire alien civlization than one previously unmentioned human colony.

Though what I don't want is a repeat of Clan Tech power creep at the same time. Maybe stuff like HPG tech is very different, but I would just want the different factions to mostly use different but equal tech. Imagine one side using pulse lasers and the other side er lasers. Balanced against each other, but different. I'd prefer to establish a new tech level, build from the concepts of the earlier timelines.


(Say, ditch double heat sinks - everyone is using double heat sinks now, and we call them just heat sinks. Maybe there are larger and heavier variants, but they come all with different advantages or drawbacks. Example: Standard Heat Sink: 1 ton, 1 crit, -1 heat. Compact Enhanced Heat Sink: 1.5 tons, 2 crits, -2 heat. If destroyed, corrosive cooling liquid damages the mech. Whenever the mech's heat level is 4 or higher, it takes 1 damage for each destroyed sink. Light Enhanced Heat Sink: 1 ton, 3 crits, -2 heat. If destroyed, the flammable cooling liquid risks heating up the mech further. For each destroyed sink, if the heat level is 4 or higher, the destroyed sink produces 1 additional heat. A complete shutdown of the mech and a flush of the coolant liquids negates this effect for all currently destroyed sinks. A Mech usually only holds enough coolant to perform one such flush, a second flush would disable all heat sinks and force the mech to shutdown until refilled. Engine Sinks are always standard sinks (so no magical doubling of heat dissipation.))

#33 KalebFenoir

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 06:54 AM

View PostMustrumRidcully, on 28 February 2013 - 03:05 AM, said:

(Say, ditch double heat sinks - everyone is using double heat sinks now, and we call them just heat sinks. Maybe there are larger and heavier variants, but they come all with different advantages or drawbacks. Example: Standard Heat Sink: 1 ton, 1 crit, -1 heat. Compact Enhanced Heat Sink: 1.5 tons, 2 crits, -2 heat. If destroyed, corrosive cooling liquid damages the mech. Whenever the mech's heat level is 4 or higher, it takes 1 damage for each destroyed sink. Light Enhanced Heat Sink: 1 ton, 3 crits, -2 heat. If destroyed, the flammable cooling liquid risks heating up the mech further. For each destroyed sink, if the heat level is 4 or higher, the destroyed sink produces 1 additional heat. A complete shutdown of the mech and a flush of the coolant liquids negates this effect for all currently destroyed sinks. A Mech usually only holds enough coolant to perform one such flush, a second flush would disable all heat sinks and force the mech to shutdown until refilled. Engine Sinks are always standard sinks (so no magical doubling of heat dissipation.))


I kind of like this idea for a new heatsink. It's similar enough to existing stuff to not cause too much of an issue, but different enough to offer interesting opportunities for play. Plus, I love the idea of the drawback of highly corrosive coolants. Forget the flush though. I would think that, if the sink is destroyed, then it does a set number of damage to the location it's in. If that results in destruction of an additional heatsink, then on the next turn, the damage from THAT sink is applied (because it takes a few seconds for the acids to eat into the sink, but takes almost no time at all for it to disable the sink's function), and so on. It'd be almost like having an unhealable, but temporary poison-counter on the mech. If enough sinks on a mech get destroyed, either in the same moment (lucky strike takes three), or it cascade-damages over three or so rounds, you could literally have a mech that, while running around and fighting, starts dissolving from the inside out. Imagine that Cat K-2 suddenly shedding its right torso while running, and the pilot being horrified to discover his nice new heatsinks were now working on eating into his CT's internal structure and the engine therein?

Oh yes, I like this idea indeed.

#34 CG Oglethorpe Kerensky

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 07:08 AM

View PostPht, on 23 February 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

There are no sentient aliens in the BT lore.

I do not know HOW the heck peter rice got away with the crap with those bird creatures, because it's been a hard and fast rule pretty much since the start that aliens are verboten in the BT universe.

I suspect TPTB may have officially disavowed his book...


Utterly disgraceful!

The noble and brave Tetatae are one of the best things in the BT universe, they are intelligent enough to pilot battlemechs and were treated horribly by the humans that met them. Don't think for a moment that they won't be making another appearance.

In fact...keep your eyes on the battlefield.

#35 Stormwolf

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 07:18 AM

View PostCG Oglethorpe Kerensky, on 28 February 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:


Utterly disgraceful!

The noble and brave Tetatae are one of the best things in the BT universe, they are intelligent enough to pilot battlemechs and were treated horribly by the humans that met them. Don't think for a moment that they won't be making another appearance.

In fact...keep your eyes on the battlefield.


Let's not forget that they taste pretty good.

#36 KalebFenoir

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 08:11 AM

View PostCG Oglethorpe Kerensky, on 28 February 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:


Utterly disgraceful!

The noble and brave Tetatae are one of the best things in the BT universe, they are intelligent enough to pilot battlemechs and were treated horribly by the humans that met them. Don't think for a moment that they won't be making another appearance.

In fact...keep your eyes on the battlefield.


Why, I can totally see them piloting a Marauder, or any of the bird-leg mechs. Just redesign the cockpit to accommodate them, and specialize the controls for their unique body requirements...and I think it'd be scary.





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