94 replies to this topic

[Redwo1f]

taking forever to find matches - guess not enough playing now, or ELO matchmaking issue???

[shintakie]

Thontor, on 19 February 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

Uh.. No... How did you get that from this

Probably the word increased thats used instead of the words "Now has a blah chance"

Edited by shintakie, 19 February 2013 - 11:59 AM.

[hammerreborn]

Thontor, on 19 February 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

Uh.. No... How did you get that from this

By you know...reading? Good god did you actually graduate?

Quote

- The Machine Gun has a 14% increased chance to crit once, an 8% increased chance to crit twice, and a 3% increased chance to crit 3 times.

I'm not sure how much clearer I can be with this.

Edited by hammerreborn, 19 February 2013 - 12:00 PM.

[stjobe]

Thontor, on 19 February 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

Ah.. Perhaps you are right... I stand corrected.. Fixing the math post.

Don't bother, I wasn't just plucking that 5 DPS number from thin air:

stjobe, on 19 February 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

With today's patch, these changes are made to the MG:


A few notes:
Crit chances will be:
38% chance of single crit,
22% chance of double crits,
7% chance of triple crits.
For a total chance of 67% to crit.

On unarmoured targets, the MG will be a beast:

100 shots (10 seconds of fire)
38 * 0.5 = 17
22 * 1.0 = 22
7 * 1.5 = 10.5
33 * 0.04 = 1.32
-------------------
100 hits = 50.82

Of course, on armoured targets, it'll still suck:

100 hits on armoured location = 4 damage

But please do note that the MG won't do any increased damage to internal structure AFAICT, so you won't be blowing any limbs off - you might strip them of their actuators and weapons, but you won't remove them.

Edited by stjobe, 19 February 2013 - 12:06 PM.

[DangerDonaghey]

Adridos, on 19 February 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

If you don't believe me, Uziel is a typical medium mech of the later era

If I recall there are two variants in the 3050 tactical readout meaning by time we have clan(~3052) contact there are 2 variants in the wild.

which is prob too low for PGI to implement easily...

-Danger

[stjobe]

Thontor, on 19 February 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

Yeah, I apologize for the misunderstanding. I saw 5 DPS and it looked like you just did its standard 0.4 DPS and multiplied it by the 12.5x modifier.. Which happens to come out to 5

Again, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Don't worry about it - I should perhaps have put 5.082 DPS there for clarity, but I thought "above 5 DPS" would be easier to read

[LogicSol]

Sweet Centurion buffs! can't wait to try out the new map too, I've recently brushed off my jenner and picked up a cicada.

To those poopooing the mg buffs. You do realize that engines are components too right?

[Trauglodyte]

Bilbo, on 19 February 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

Because of the crit chance after stripping armor, it can be used continuously without creating heat, so you can take out weapons while you wait for your mech to cool down.

Yeah, but the damage is against "internal items" and doesn't include internal structure which means that you're just removing their items while your big guns, if you have one, goes up against the structure. It is definitely not elegant and is really a shame when you consider the SDR-5K that can't even put a Lrg Pulse on its center torso to go with the 4 MGs.

[LogicSol]

Thontor, on 19 February 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

True, about engines... But currently destroying an engine via critical hits does nothing... The only way to destroy an engine is to completely destroy a component containing the engine.. (Center torso, or side torso for xl engines.)

Are you certain that is still true? I could swear I died last week with all torso sections intact, from "Engine destroyed".

[stjobe]

LogicSol, on 19 February 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

To those poopooing the mg buffs. You do realize that engines are components too right?

Yes, they are. They have 15 health, so it would take at least three seconds of constant hits on just the engine to kill with a single MG.

[LogicSol]

Trauglodyte, on 19 February 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

Yeah, but the damage is against "internal items" and doesn't include internal structure which means that you're just removing their items while your big guns, if you have one, goes up against the structure.

Ammo explosions on the other hand will damage internals.

Trauglodyte, on 19 February 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

It is definitely not elegant and is really a shame when you consider the SDR-5K that can't even put a Lrg Pulse on its center torso to go with the 4 MGs.

Er it's a shame you can't mount a weapon weighing roughly 1/4 entire mech in addition to machine guns, what?

stjobe, on 19 February 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

Yes, they are. They have 15 health, so it would take at least three seconds of constant hits on just the engine to kill with a single MG.

That's not too shabby, the 4x MG spider could get a kill on an unarmored component in under a second then. Pair up a 6slas jenner and a spider and you can cripple torso components from behind like nobodies busin
ess.

Edited by LogicSol, 19 February 2013 - 01:10 PM.

[stjobe]

LogicSol, on 19 February 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

That's not too shabby, the 4x MG spider could get a kill on an unarmored component in under a second then.

Sure, if component in question was the only component in that section of the 'mech, and all bullets hit that section. Both of which are dubious at best.

LogicSol, on 19 February 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

Pair up a 6slas jenner and a spider and you can cripple torso components from behind like nobodies business.

Isn't that the very definition of non-viable? That you have to pair up with another 'mech to be of any use whatsoever? In fact, that Jenner puts out 18 damage with those Small Lasers and could in fact do the job just about as well whether or not the Spider was there.

In fact, it only takes that Jenner 3 seconds to head-shot any 'mech. 18 damage is the max armour on any head, and 15 internal structure goes on the second shot.

The Spider, on the other hand... 11.5 seconds to get through the head armour, and then another .5 seconds to crit-damage a component to kill the 'mech.

So, summing up:
Jenner: Two alphas from the Jenner (3 seconds).
Jenner + Spider: Two alphas from the Jenner
Spider alone: Four times as long as the Jenner alone (12 seconds of constant firing).

Edited by stjobe, 19 February 2013 - 03:55 PM.

[LogicSol]

stjobe, on 19 February 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

Sure, if component in question was the only component in that section of the 'mech, and all bullets hit that section. Both of which are dubious at best.


Isn't that the very definition of non-viable? That you have to pair up with another 'mech to be of any use whatsoever? In fact, that Jenner puts out 18 damage with those Small Lasers and could in fact do the job just about as well whether or not the Spider was there.

In fact, it only takes that Jenner 3 seconds to head-shot any 'mech. 18 damage is the max armour on any head, and 15 internal structure goes on the second shot.

The Spider, on the other hand... 11.5 seconds to get through the head armour, and then another .5 seconds to crit-damage a component to kill the 'mech.

So, summing up:
Jenner: Two alphas from the Jenner (3 seconds).
Jenner + Spider: Two alphas from the Jenner
Spider alone: Four times as long as the Jenner alone (12 seconds of constant firing).

Doing damage is a side role for light mechs. Scouting, harrasing, narc, TAG, base capture these are their primary tasks. The jenner is essentially the assault light, while the raven may be able to fit a bigger gun, the jenner can combine high speed, armor and an impressive weapons loadout to the table, but doesn't have any cool tricks like ECM and is limited in its jumpjets.
The spider on the other hand is 10 tons lighter and made for maneuverability, It having a clean up weapon is perfected suited to it. There are of course, 2 other spider designs that have 2 and 3 energy slots respectively, for those who prefer energy weapons.


But really, this game is not balanced around single mechs, it is balanced around teamplay and the various roles supporting eachother.
The whole point of paring a jenner with a spider is to do a single run. Slas across the back, followed by MG fire. Escape and move to the next target. Or stick around and harrass it's up to you. Yeah you can do the same thing in another jenner, but the point is it will still work in a spider.

The spider will look nicer when(and if) the speed cap ever gets lifted, and machine guns will still be light, cheap, create no heat and be great for disabling mechs.

Edited by LogicSol, 19 February 2013 - 05:30 PM.

[shintakie]

LogicSol, on 19 February 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

Doing damage is a side role for light mechs. Scouting, harrasing, narc, TAG, base capture these are their primary tasks. The jenner is essentially the assault light, while the raven may be able to fit a bigger gun, the jenner can combine high speed, armor and an impressive weapons loadout to the table, but doesn't have any cool tricks like ECM and is limited in its jumpjets.
The spider on the other hand is 10 tons lighter and made for maneuverability, It having a clean up weapon is perfected suited to it. There are of course, 2 other spider designs that have 2 and 3 energy slots respectively, for those who prefer energy weapons.


But really, this game is not balanced around single mechs, it is balanced around teamplay and the various roles supporting eachother.
The whole point of paring a jenner with a spider is to do a single run. Slas across the back, followed by MG fire. Escape and move to the next target. Or stick around and harrass it's up to you. Yeah you can do the same thing in another jenner, but the point is it will still work in a spider.

The spider will look nicer when(and if) the speed cap ever gets lifted, and machine guns will still be light, cheap, create no heat and be great for disabling mechs.

It works with the Spider, but it'd work better with a Jenner, or any other Spider than the 5k. In fact, you stick 2 of those 6 small laser Jenners instead of the Spider and you can have a dead mech/near dead mech instead of a kinda damaged mech.

[stjobe]

LogicSol, on 19 February 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

Doing damage is a side role for light mechs. Scouting, harrasing, narc, TAG, base capture these are their primary tasks. The jenner is essentially the assault light, while the raven may be able to fit a bigger gun, the jenner can combine high speed, armor and an impressive weapons loadout to the table, but doesn't have any cool tricks like ECM and is limited in its jumpjets.
The spider on the other hand is 10 tons lighter and made for maneuverability, It having a clean up weapon is perfected suited to it. There are of course, 2 other spider designs that have 2 and 3 energy slots respectively, for those who prefer energy weapons.


But really, this game is not balanced around single mechs, it is balanced around teamplay and the various roles supporting eachother.
The whole point of paring a jenner with a spider is to do a single run. Slas across the back, followed by MG fire. Escape and move to the next target. Or stick around and harrass it's up to you. Yeah you can do the same thing in another jenner, but the point is it will still work in a spider.

The spider will look nicer when(and if) the speed cap ever gets lifted, and machine guns will still be light, cheap, create no heat and be great for disabling mechs.

Without a damage boost versus armour the MG will never be viable, simply because it cannot function on its own.
Every other weapon in the game can strip armour and crit internals; the MG can only crit internals meaning it's useless until something else has stripped armour.

This is especially frustrating since the MG is the only light-weight ballistic option - it's hard to fit a 6-ton AC/2 on a light 'mech.

So what this means is that ballistic lights - much unlike energy- or missile-lights - are needlessly relegated to a "mopping-up" role. Why is this okay when a 3xSRM Commando or 6xSL Jenner is not so restricted? Why are people so dead set against having a viable light-weight ballistic option?