105 replies to this topic

[DukeRustfield]

Torso twist on an Atlas isn't going to stop much. I can do the cartoon zigzag nearly as well as anyone else, puttering along at 45. It's not like you become invisible. You're still an assault.

LRM >>> direct fire weapons. Sure you might only get 300dmg. But it will be 300 dmg while you're sitting in cover. Unless you got your particle weapons mounted on your shoulders you're going to have to expose a pretty large portion of yourself to shoot at the enemy.

Players in online games are really good at seeing what works and what doesn't. It's called Crowd-Pwning. The mechs I see consistently doing the best are Stalker boats and DCs. If ECM is a crutch, it's still a counter to boats. I don't hear people saying there should only be 1 boat per team.

Had a fight yesterday where it was like 3 boats inside a ECM bubble just standing out in the open. We couldn't trade long distance fire with them and by the time we got up to them, yes, going from cover to cover, we had been beat to hell. And it's not like the boats become worthless at close/med range, unless they are pure LRM.

[StalaggtIKE]

DukeRustfield, on 04 March 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

Torso twist on an Atlas isn't going to stop much. I can do the cartoon zigzag nearly as well as anyone else, puttering along at 45. It's not like you become invisible. You're still an assault.

No. Not zigzaging. Twisting your upper body to spread damage on armor points between LA,LT,CT,RT,RA. For an Atlas, that's over 450 points of total damage you can absorb. The following guide explains how lasers works and how important torso twisting is in increasing your survivability: [GUIDE] LASER BEAMS AND YOU: HOW TO MELT PROPERLY.

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LRM >>> direct fire weapons. Sure you might only get 300dmg. But it will be 300 dmg while you're sitting in cover. Unless you got your particle weapons mounted on your shoulders you're going to have to expose a pretty large portion of yourself to shoot at the enemy.

Well, I think LRM are currently the weakest weapon group in the game. Both lasers and ballistics have much faster travel rate and the ability for a single point of impact. I consider them superior to LRM because of these pros. However, this is a matter of opinion. All I can say is 8vs8 man, arguably the most competitive group, uses very little LRM. Keep in mind this was even before ECM was implemented. I imagine now with ECM, LRM are hardly represented at all.

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Players in online games are really good at seeing what works and what doesn't. It's called Crowd-Pwning. The mechs I see consistently doing the best are Stalker boats and DCs. If ECM is a crutch, it's still a counter to boats.

No? What about all the Splatcat threads? No people rarely complain about boats in general, they instead complain about a particular popular build. Splatcats happen to be the flavor of the month. Previously it was PPC Stalker boats. However the common trend is they're always boats. You are correct ECM is a crutch. You don't achieve balance by adding more layers of BS. It will only complicate things later on. Here's a couple of games of how ECM worked as a crutch for me: Game1, Game2, Game3 and Game4. I do not by any means considers myself a good player, I realize I have a lot to learn.

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I don't hear people saying there should only be 1 boat per team.

No instead you see posts saying to include ECM in MM or limit ECM to 1-2 per team.

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Had a fight yesterday where it was like 3 boats inside a ECM bubble just standing out in the open. We couldn't trade long distance fire with them and by the time we got up to them, yes, going from cover to cover, we had been beat to hell. And it's not like the boats become worthless at close/med range, unless they are pure LRM.

This is exactly what I mean. ECM did not fix the issue of LRM boats, it only exasperated the issue. Under normal circumstances your team would have been able to fire LRM back, however due to ECM that was no longer a viable option. This is a part of the bad game balance. Btw, if they are not purely LRM, then they aren't boats.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 04 March 2013 - 01:37 PM.

[DukeRustfield]

StalaggtIKE, on 04 March 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

Well, I think LRM are currently the weakest weapon group in the game. Both lasers and ballistics have much faster travel rate and the ability for a single point of impact. I consider them superior to LRM because of these pros. However, this is a matter of opinion. All I can say is 8vs8 man, arguably the most competitive group, uses very little LRM. Keep in mind this was even before ECM was implemented. I imagine now with ECM, LRM are hardly represented at all.

Nonsense. You have to hit with them. A moving target @800+ in a networked game sometimes at night with buildings and terrain in the way and your guns sitting on your torso, or other non-optimal spots, this isn't easy. LRM = fire and forget. Yeah, you spread damage. So what, fire again. If you're tagged and Artemissed, you're taking a hell of a lot of dmg. I wish they broke out the stats for dmg.

No, the issue wasn't they had LRM's. They had some. It was they were gaus/ppc/layz0r/boats with more armor than anyone who is going to trade shots with them. It doesn't matter if they are slower, they're not running anywhere.

[Frank the Tank]

DukeRustfield, on 04 March 2013 - 02:48 PM, said:

Nonsense. You have to hit with them. A moving target @800+ in a networked game sometimes at night with buildings and terrain in the way and your guns sitting on your torso, or other non-optimal spots, this isn't easy. LRM = fire and forget. Yeah, you spread damage. So what, fire again. If you're tagged and Artemissed, you're taking a hell of a lot of dmg. I wish they broke out the stats for dmg.

No, the issue wasn't they had LRM's. They had some. It was they were gaus/ppc/layz0r/boats with more armor than anyone who is going to trade shots with them. It doesn't matter if they are slower, they're not running anywhere.

You can't do that with LRMs either. Buildings and terrain mess up LRMs just as much as direct fire, especially at long range where its easy to lose target lock. They are not fire and forget; you need to maintain lock for the duration of their flight or else they will miss completely.

If you can't get to cover or break line of sight with all of the warnings: "Warning Targeted." "Warning Incoming Missiles." etc within 800m of flight time then you are either in the wrong place or a completely oblivious bad pilot.

Edited by Frank the Tank, 05 March 2013 - 08:28 AM.

[Koniving]

Drawfire, on 02 March 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

Oops, forgot one:

"Warning, Targeted" needs to be removed. While it is nice to know when someone sees you, it takes all the fun out of stalking an assault in a light mech. He always knows you're there. There is no way to quietly spot for your team from an inconspicuous place. There is no way to drop in behind an enemy light and carefully line up a shot. He immediately dodges.

Besides, how would an enemy mech know it was targeted, anyway?

This is all very different from "Warning, Incomming Missiles". There's any number of ways to know when enemy missiles are in the air. It also is an anouncement that you are being shot at. It fits well in the game.

Comes from sensor data of being actively scanned by active sensors. We need our passive sensors option.

Until then, there's an easy fix. Easy fix. Don't "target" that 'Mech.

For me I enjoy hearing warning targeted. 90% of the time it occurs just before an enemy shoots me. I admit it should be more of a beep or something; something faster. Since there are other "Warnings" that are preceded with Warning.

The phrase comes a little too frequently but it is helpful.

"Warning missile lock. Warning incoming missile. Warning targeted."

How about: A beep for being targeted? Or the warning after the instance? "Targeted Warning." "Incoming Missile Warning" "Missile Lock Warning"

Or preceding each with a different word.

"Caution, Targeted." "Warning, missile lock." "Alert, Incoming Missile!"

DukeRustfield, on 04 March 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

LRM >>> direct fire weapons. Sure you might only get 300dmg. But it will be 300 dmg while you're sitting in cover.

I don't use them that often, but I tend to average multiple kills and an excess of 800 damage in a Hunchback 4J. 2 small lasers, 2 LRM 15s + Artemis. O.o;

[StalaggtIKE]

DukeRustfield, on 04 March 2013 - 02:48 PM, said:

Nonsense. You have to hit with them. A moving target @800+ in a networked game sometimes at night with buildings and terrain in the way and your guns sitting on your torso, or other non-optimal spots, this isn't easy. LRM = fire and forget. Yeah, you spread damage. So what, fire again. If you're tagged and Artemissed, you're taking a hell of a lot of dmg. I wish they broke out the stats for dmg.

No, the issue wasn't they had LRM's. They had some. It was they were gaus/ppc/layz0r/boats with more armor than anyone who is going to trade shots with them. It doesn't matter if they are slower, they're not running anywhere.

Your statement is conflicted. You first state that missiles are great, wrongly describing them as fire and forget. Fact is, you must maintain lock for duration. If you do not and the target moves, the missiles will miss, even in the open. Next, you say it was the lasers and ballistics that beat you. Well which one was it? What is even your point?

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 05 March 2013 - 09:39 AM.