96 replies to this topic

[De La Fresniere]

Mao of DC, on 20 February 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

They DID change the way MG crit its more like 1.5 DPS to internals.

The text below comes from the patch notes. http://mwomercs.com/...12190-19022013/

- The Machine Gun has a 14% increased chance to crit once, an 8% increased chance to crit twice, and a 3% increased chance to crit 3 times.
- When the Machine Gun crits, it will deal 12.5x the amount of normal damage per bullet to an internal item.
- The Machine Gun crit damage is 12.5 x 0.04 = 0.5 per crit. Max crit of 3 times = 1.5.
- Due to the rate of fire, the Machine Gun is now a heavy crit seeker and will be VERY effective vs. items on non-armoured locations.

Crits don't cause *any* structure damage.

MGs could have a 100% triple-crit chance and a 1,000,000,000 crit multiplier, it would still only do 0.4 damage per second to the actual section.

[shintakie]

Mao of DC, on 20 February 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

They DID change the way MG crit its more like 1.5 DPS to internals.

The text below comes from the patch notes. http://mwomercs.com/...12190-19022013/

Machine Guns/Flamers/LB10-X

- The Flamer has a 14% increased chance to crit once, an 8% increased chance to crit twice, and a 3% increased chance to crit 3 times.
- When the Flamer crits, it will deal 1.1x the amount of normal damage to an internal item.
- Flamer crit damage is 0.4 x 1.1 = 0.44 per crit. Max crit of 3 times = 1.32.
- The low damage mulitplier is due to the fact that the Flamer already has it's head increase ability.
- The LB10-X has a 14% increased chance to crit once, an 8% increased chance to crit twice, and a 3% increased chance to crit 3 times.
- When the LB10-X crits, it will deal 2.0x the amount of normal damage from 1 'pellet' to an internal item.
- The LB10-X crit damage is 1.0 x 2.0 = 2.0 per crit. Max crit of 3 times = 6.0.
- The Machine Gun has a 14% increased chance to crit once, an 8% increased chance to crit twice, and a 3% increased chance to crit 3 times.
- When the Machine Gun crits, it will deal 12.5x the amount of normal damage per bullet to an internal item.
- The Machine Gun crit damage is 12.5 x 0.04 = 0.5 per crit. Max crit of 3 times = 1.5.
- Due to the rate of fire, the Machine Gun is now a heavy crit seeker and will be VERY effective vs. items on non-armoured locations.

Did you read what you just posted or did you just post it and think you were right, because you're wrong.

I bolded the parts that are relevant in case you missed it.

Here's a relevant part as to why this entire system is a waste of whoever designed its time.

Quote

What does that mean to you? After I've completed my first pass at multiplier numbers and after it goes through testing, you will notice that the Machine Gun will become a formidable weapon when used against a component that has no armor. Basically it will start to shred items that are mounted on the targeted component.

Crits do not do jack to the internal structure of a mech, only to the items inside. The only possible way you're killin someone with MG's now is if you're attackin a location with somethin that explodes, like ammo or a Gauss. You'll still run out of ammo before you can destroy an actual section with a MG otherwise.

[Psikez]

Not me bro, I got 10 tons of MG ammo

[Kelpaz]

I rather use an UAC5 on my Spider-5K than quad machineguns, It's just more overall useful.
This way I can both harrass and do damage to an enemy mech with full armor.
I was hoping for a real damage buff but they only buffed crit damage to internal components.

I tried quad machineguns + one MLas once, I managed to get into internal yellow on a huncback after following it for a while round, when all my friends were dead I managed to take one leg off and died.

Edited by Kelpaz, 25 February 2013 - 02:35 PM.

[slayerkdm]

Well, I am a MG fan. I supported them as a tertiary weapon after the change.

I think I was wrong. I noticed no difference with or without them. They need a damage boost, as much as I thought the crit would make them atleast viable, I dont think it does.

The game is in a state where you just cant sit and blast away at somebody the length of time you need to. I thought you still could, but after probably 40 games in my HBK G, I can honestly say I thought they made no appreciable difference. It probably hurt me more trying to get in there range and use concentrate their fire, than it did just taking them off.

Im a MG fan, but I think I have to agree with the nay sayers now. Hopefully they will get a bit of damage boost also. For now, I think I will use the tons for something else. Pity, cuz I love the sound.

[hammerreborn]

BECAUSE DAKKADAKKADAKKADAKKADAKKADAKKADAKKA, THAT'S WHY.

Best sound in the game.

[Paula Fry]

This aint WWII and i havent seen Infantry with Infernos...so leave the MGs alone!

[FrostCollar]

Paula Fry, on 25 February 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

This aint WWII and i havent seen Infantry with Infernos...so leave the MGs alone!

You make Spider 5Ks, Raven 4Xs, and Cicada 3Cs cry.

[Davers]

Eventually we will be able to crit engines, after all they already have HP right? Maybe then crit seeking weapons will be more useful.

[mechymike]

atleast allow our MG to snipe missles!

[Indk]

The MG buff and crit system are awesome. God forbid the game have interesting mechanics or something unique going for it other than raw DPS.

[Jetfire]

mechymike, on 25 February 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

atleast allow our MG to snipe missles!

mechymike, on 25 February 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

atleast allow our MG to snipe missles!

I would **** myself laughing if I could stand out in an LRM barrage hosing down missles with MG's in my spider.

[Esplodin]

I was pretty psyched about the crit changes and loaded my ballistic spider with moar dakka. Still works as an agro magnet, and it has the best sound in the game, but always reminds me of:



It also demonstrates the usual arguments quite nicely too!

Edited by Esplodin, 26 February 2013 - 05:41 AM.

[Caviel]

shintakie, on 20 February 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

Crits do not do jack to the internal structure of a mech, only to the items inside. The only possible way you're killin someone with MG's now is if you're attackin a location with somethin that explodes, like ammo or a Gauss.

And C.A.S.E limits the effect of the ammo explosion on top of that.

slayerkdm, on 25 February 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

I think I was wrong. I noticed no difference with or without them. They need a damage boost, as much as I thought the crit would make them atleast viable, I dont think it does.

As I mentioned in the other MG thread:

Destroyed mech > disabled mech
Destroyed section > destroyed components

I have yet to put together a build that would not be better served running additional ammo, armor, weapons, or a heatsink over the required 1.5 ton minimum for a machine gun. That, and I don't want to be anywhere close to 90m from an enemy mech.

The problem I see is I that can't see any change they can make to the MGs without tipping the OP scale too far that you'll get everyone flocking to fast, high ballistic hardpoint count mechs. Same problem PPCs have, if one is workable, 6 becomes OP.

[Smeghead87]

I threw a couple of machineguns on an experimental dragon build I'm trying out, but I get the feeling they will soon be dropped in favour of an AMS or something else thats actually useful. They are just too situational to be effective.

If you see an enemy with stripped armour,
and he/she happens to be within 200m,
and theres a dangerous weapon in the location of the stripped armour like a gauss or ac20,
and your heat is quite high,
then it's time to let loose with your machineguns.
If all these conditions are not met, then just carry on firing your big guns into their centre torso.

Alternatively you could just tape down the button and have them fire till the ammo runs dry in the hope that the meager spray of damage and lack of heat might give you a slight slight edge.

Edited by Smeghead87, 25 February 2013 - 04:32 PM.

[Sifright]

Another mg thread that needs to be closed and it's post count and link added to the MG discussion balance thread

This is a post to assist the mods in understanding the breadth of the problem I will be copy pasting this into older machine gun threads that did not recieve mod or dev attention so the feed back can be linked from the new thread.

[Egomane]

Closed!

For MG discussion go here: http://mwomercs.com/...eedback/unread/