14 replies to this topic

[HeavyG]

Heres why i cant decide:

3C:

+ comes with stock fast engine (i know i can upgrade 7M, but its expensive, abaut 5 mil to be on par with 3C ...)
- no jump jets

7M:

+ jumpjets, but they are heavy, one extra missile slot, though anything above LRM 10 is overweight, but can come handy in 3x SSRM setup....
- stock is slow

Why would you choose 7M over 3C? And why 3C over 7M?

[TheFlyingScotsman]

Here's my thoughts on these 'Mechs.

7M: This is easily my favorite medium mech. 105kmh, plenty of armament options and JJs. There are a couple things you need to keep in mind though. The 7M has missile hardpoints of 2x15 tube slots and 1x1 tube slot. This means that the RT and LA will be able to easily fire just about anything, but the LT tube fires a single missile at a time until the launcher is empty. This can take a lot of time and make it difficult to fire an entire salvo in a timely manner, such as while you are making a jump-strike.

In my build, (2ML, TAG, 2SRM4art, SSRM2, 5JJ) I found SRM4 or larger unbearable in the NARC slot, and use SSRM2 for a faster salvo time and more predictable missile paths. Both are great when used right. SSRMs are more accurate and cannot be fired against many targets without ECM support, but SRM4+art is a very tightly packed and accurate salvo, but requires careful aim, especially on fastish mechs. When combined, the SRM8art SSRM2 combo is fantastic.

The only downside is having to manage four weapon types. An SSRM, 2ML, 1SRM4 on a torso, and 1SRM4 on an arm. The upside is that you can strafe targets below you with 2ML, SRM4art and SSRM2 at the same time. Very few mechs enjoy such abilities, making the 7M one of the most powerful Jump-strike chassis. (Short of the splatcat, which is due to be "balanced" in some form anyway, and nowhere near as fast or jumpy.)


The 3C is very simple. Think of it as a Cicada 2A with slower speed, much heavier armor, and a missile slot instead of the sixth Energy hardpoint. One of the most potent builds I've seen with it (And one of the few that can fit a max sized XL and full equipment.) uses 5ML 1SSRM and is pretty heat stable, surprisingly. This variant is fairly sturdy and fast, making it an ample lance support mech, easily countering attackers and adding strong, accurate, lightweight weaponry to the match.

Just think of either of these as slower lights that stick with the group, and have much more imposing weapons. Also, don't be fooled by the illusion of higher FP on paper. It does not equal higher damage in the field. (Especially with lights and mediums.) Both of these are great support mechs, though I find the other three variants a little lackluster.

Edited by TheFlyingScotsman, 21 February 2013 - 10:04 AM.

[80Bit]

You mentioned LRMS. If you are going to go with an LRM build, I have had great success on my 5N.

While it looks inferior to the 3C, having the same number of hard points and a slower engine, it has 25 degrees of extra torso twist. This lets you move slightly away from targets as you maintain lock and hit them with LRMS. If you are going LRM, you don't have the weight to use the extra missile slot on the 7M or the bigger engine on the 3C.


If you are not going with LRMs, I defer to TheFlyingScotsmens excellent advice.

[Indoorsman]

You mentioned upgrading the engine being expensive, but the engine is part of the price of the 3C...

[Attrition0]

Indoorsman, on 21 February 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

You mentioned upgrading the engine being expensive, but the engine is part of the price of the 3C...

Actually in that line he was comparing to the 7M, which would requires a costly engine upgrade to match the 3C (the 300XL).

Quote

(i know i can upgrade 7M, but its expensive, abaut 5 mil to be on par with 3C ...)

Edited by Attrition0, 21 February 2013 - 11:46 AM.

[Indoorsman]

Attrition0, on 21 February 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

Actually in that line he was comparing to the 7M, which would requires a costly engine upgrade to match the 3C (the 300XL).

I know, I was saying the price of the 3C includes that engine upgrade cost. The only extra cost of going with a 7M and then upgrading the engine, is not the cost of the 300XL but half the cost of the stock engine that you only get 50% back on by selling.

[Devil Fox]

The 3C is a glorified speed hog and Hunchback 4SP, it has the engine capacity and hardpoints to mount what a 4SP does, go faster and be more pestilent. I however see the only real value in the jumpjet capability of the new medium, because it completely changes the gameplay style. The 7M, whilst it does have the dicky narc launcher (not that you HAVE to use it) provides you with ample room for a speedy engine, enough energy hardpoints for self-defense and a reasonable missile point layout for either LRM or SRM (in configurations).

Myself, the 7M reigns top after my 5J. I use the 7M in a fast mobile LRM battery role, but have also done the SSRM boating with it (not my cup without more energy)... but the jumpjets just make it hard for larger mechs to even track or chase you (even other fast treb's).

It all comes down to your playstyle, just remember it's only the engine you have to rebuy (or steal from another of your mechs).

Edited by Apostal, 21 February 2013 - 01:27 PM.

[Stingz]

3C is speed focused, 7M is well rounded, 5N has more twist if you don't want JJ.

[Gunnisson]

I feel like a bit of a Heretic for doing this to the 7M but I've been fitting it with 3x SSRM, 2x ML, 1x ER PPC, 3x JJ, maxed armour and XL. It works like a charm.

ER PPC allows poke and contribution before the fight gets close, then when you engage in the dirty the ER PPC works wonders in knocking out ECM to allow your SSRM to tear opponents through and through. Clocking 90+kph (without tweak) it works wonders as a skirmisher with the ER PPC as well as a light hunter (if you're good enough to land those ER PPCs on the lights). Heat management is excellent, use of the SSRM and ER PPC will last for a long extended fight, with the MLs an option if you want more up front burst for larger heat gain.

It just feels so balanced and is a joy to pilot. Regularly get over 500 dmg, highest I achieved was 900+ and 7 kills, which is somewhat impressive for a Med. Avg damage is around 700 per game. Would definitely recommend it if you're good at landing those ER PPC shots.

Edited by Gunnisson, 21 February 2013 - 06:50 PM.

[Budor]

300Xl is a damn fine engine. Can use that in a ton of other mechs. In my opinion you should buy bigger engines for the 7M and 3C anyways. So yeah no help i guess...jumpjets are pretty cool though.

[Lege]

Why not get both? You need three to unlock elites.
I prefer the 7M, but they don't play much differently.
Putting anything bigger than a 325 XL engine in a 50 tonner is losing to much weapons or armor IMO.

[Stingz]

Lege, on 21 February 2013 - 08:44 PM, said:

Why not get both? You need three to unlock elites.
I prefer the 7M, but they don't play much differently.
Putting anything bigger than a 325 XL engine in a 50 tonner is losing to much weapons or armor IMO.

3C and 7M both cost about an Assault mech in C-Bills, those XL engines are not cheap..

[Wrenchfarm]

I've been tinkering with my 7M the past few days. Here is my fav build so far.

The combination of a big honking engine, jets, steaks, and MLAS that can be used with a minimum of heat discipline is MONSTROUS. Brain dead aiming with high manoeuvrability and a speed that can keep up with lights, have fun flying over Atlai while raining down missiles.

Downsides - less burst damage than something set up with SRMs, ECM lights are going to be annoying (as always). Make sure to ask friendly ECM mechs to run counter if the situation is right.

I have an XL320 in there purely because I have them on hand, I'm sure you could drop AMS or trim up the armour to go to the XL325 if you wanted to.

[Drogum Nethar]

Anyone come up with an effective 7k build to use the ballistic slots?

[Marchant Consadine]

Love my 3C in almost stock config. Just dropped the CASEs and a ton of ammo to up the armor and add sensor range module. With that mobility it's actually possible to stay in the 200-250 range and just rain your LRMs and lasers. If things (or your mech) heat up you can disengage at will. When I run out of ammo the game is usually desided already so if we've won I just run around finishing what's left of the enemy or go get the cap exp. If we've lost I try to get that one final morale kill before I die or go capping in conquest for the couple extra cb.

Remember that these are for agressive LRM playing. I hate seeing a mech that can run 100kph sitting at 900m from the enemy shooting a mountain.

Edit: Yes I know that the 5N can do the same with more torso twist and all lasers in arms. I opted for 3C just because it also gives me the option to do some fun super fast builds and I like to change my loadouts every now and then to try new things. A 50 ton mech running 139kph is definately new (if not usually very practical)

Edited by Marchant Consadine, 23 February 2013 - 05:12 PM.