38 replies to this topic

[hashinshin]

And if so, what was the point of this change? Normal weapons can just blow up the frame, and won't have issues getting to internals anyway.

[Thirdstar]

The term Crits is a misnomer as it is used in MWO.

It doesn't do any extra damage to armour. It merely makes component destruction on an exposed section a bit easier.

MGs are still completely useless and 'crit seeking' is a silly 'buff'.

[Vrekgar]

Crits increase the DPS of certain weapons against internals. Some mechs internals are very strong and tough to kill, and the new crit seeking weapons tear into them pretty fiercely.

[hashinshin]

two conflicting statements.

[KinLuu]

hashinshin, on 19 February 2013 - 11:49 PM, said:

two conflicting statements.

No, not at all. Just a different conclusion.

[p00k]

basically, this patch made those weapons (lbx, etc) better at destroying internal components, but still garbage at outright damage. meaning you're still better off taking a weapon that does more outright damage, since those weapons can wear down armor better and destroy the actual component better

[Bleary]

It's not like it's an either-or proposition. A machine gun + ammo weighs 1.5 tons. If I want to try mounting an MG on my Raven-4X to help finish off damaged opponents, I'm not taking other guns off to make room. I'm still filling every single non-ballistic hardpoint I have. I'm just maybe dropping my SRM-6 to an SRM-4 and removing a jump jet.

Edited by Bleary, 19 February 2013 - 11:58 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Crits refer to damaging internal components (actuators, weapons, engine, gyro, life support system, ammo, etc...)
In TT killing mechs was frequently accomplished via crits (ammo explosions, engine crits, gyro crits, etc...)
In this game the only way to actually kill a mech via crits is to explode their ammo, so most of what you can manage with crits is knocking out weapons.

[Vrekgar]

MG's, LBX (at extended ranges), and Flamers still suck overall. However when the armor comes down these weapons shoot up in effectiveness for finishing off mechs. 4MG's dish out 30dps to unarmored internals! Flamers a bit worse but LBX can just explode mechs when used at close range now. It has a maximum possible damage roll of 60!

[KinLuu]

Vrekgar, on 19 February 2013 - 11:58 PM, said:

MG's, LBX (at extended ranges), and Flamers still suck overall. However when the armor comes down these weapons shoot up in effectiveness for finishing off mechs. 4MG's dish out 30dps to unarmored internals! Flamers a bit worse but LBX can just explode mechs when used at close range now. It has a maximum possible damage roll of 60!

Still, not worth taking them. The only chassis I would consider a LBX would be the AS7-RS, with something like a 4x PPC 1x LBX build, using the PPC to strip the armor and the LBX to finish... But if I take a Gauss instead, I will strip the armor even faster and tbh, 4 PPCs and a Gauss tear to internals fast enough as well. There simply is no need to take a LBX.

I can imagine no build that would really improve by taking a LBX.

[Thirdstar]

KinLuu, on 20 February 2013 - 12:05 AM, said:

Still, not worth taking them. The only chassis I would consider a LBX would be the AS7-RS, with something like a 4x PPC 1x LBX build, using the PPC to strip the armor and the LBX to finish... But if I take a Gauss instead, I will strip the armor even faster and tbh, 4 PPCs and a Gauss tear to internals fast enough as well. There simply is no need to take a LBX.

I can imagine no build that would really improve by taking a LBX.

And at a much much longer range. But yeah, taking LBX is a niche within a niche. Don't get me started on MGs, I was in a majority of the 18-19 page discussion about that.

[Vrekgar]

I saw a spider once, who mounted an Lbx.

From a mathmatical perspective where everyone lines up and shoots at optimal you are correct. The LBX is a straight up terrible weapon.

Thank Kittens we dont just stand on an open field and shoot at our optimal ranges.

The LBX is an excellent Assassin weapon. You sneak up behind a heavy armored brute and hit his rear armor section with enough to strip armor, which frequently isnt much, and then let loose the boomstick.

Its not about the cut and dry mathematically optimal build but instead the kinda crazy wing and a prayer build.

[Thirdstar]

Vrekgar, on 20 February 2013 - 12:10 AM, said:

I saw a spider once, who mounted an Lbx.

From a mathmatical perspective where everyone lines up and shoots at optimal you are correct. The LBX is a straight up terrible weapon.

Thank Kittens we dont just stand on an open field and shoot at our optimal ranges.

The LBX is an excellent Assassin weapon. You sneak up behind a heavy armored brute and hit his rear armor section with enough to strip armor, which frequently isnt much, and then let loose the boomstick.

Its not about the cut and dry mathematically optimal build but instead the kinda crazy wing and a prayer build.

You're just grasping straws now AND using a terrible pilot as a stand-in enemy.

If you argument is that the weapon is great against bad players then...........well I don't know what to tell you.

[One Medic Army]

I mount an LBX on my Flame and my Dragon 1N.
On the Flame I have exactly 11 tons and 6 crits due to XL+Endo+Ferro+DHS.
On the 1N I have trouble landing accurate shots with the super-wide arm ballistic at close ranges, so I picked something that didn't punish poor aim as much.

[Vrekgar]

Look, once the armor is down an LBX will flat out outdamage a Gauss when close range. It also has higher module HP making it less fragile than the Gauss, and it doesnt explode when taken out like the gauss does.

Theres decent reasons enough to use it.

Gauss is superior for Poptarts because of the pixel perfect accuracy you have while Jumping combined with the difficulty of hitting you accurately while not jumping yourself. It also still has next to zero heat and long range.

[SpiralRazor]

Vrekgar, on 19 February 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

Crits increase the DPS of certain weapons against internals. Some mechs internals are very strong and tough to kill, and the new crit seeking weapons tear into them pretty fiercely.

no, no they really do not...

[Thirdstar]

One Medic Army, on 20 February 2013 - 12:18 AM, said:

I mount an LBX on my Flame and my Dragon 1N.
On the Flame I have exactly 11 tons and 6 crits due to XL+Endo+Ferro+DHS.
On the 1N I have trouble landing accurate shots with the super-wide arm ballistic at close ranges, so I picked something that didn't punish poor aim as much.

See now that's a better argument. I think I'm contractually obligated to tell you to Learn 2 Aim though, it's in the CoC.

Vrekgar, on 20 February 2013 - 12:18 AM, said:

Look, once the armor is down an LBX will flat out outdamage a Gauss when close range.

Yes, an LBX will inflict superior internal damage to internals but the Gaass will do the same job, without being useless outside of close range. If we had 4-5 times the amount of internal HP as we have now, you'd have a point.

Edited by Thirdstar, 20 February 2013 - 12:23 AM.

[SpiralRazor]

Vrekgar, on 20 February 2013 - 12:18 AM, said:

Look, once the armor is down an LBX will flat out outdamage a Gauss when close range. It also has higher module HP making it less fragile than the Gauss, and it doesnt explode when taken out like the gauss does.

Theres decent reasons enough to use it.

Gauss is superior for Poptarts because of the pixel perfect accuracy you have while Jumping combined with the difficulty of hitting you accurately while not jumping yourself. It also still has next to zero heat and long range.

From reading your posts, you show poor game knowledge, and poor knowledge of mechanics...= You are a bads, who pretty much refuses math and reason.

[Vrekgar]

SpiralRazor, on 20 February 2013 - 12:20 AM, said:

no, no they really do not...

Spoken like someone who hasnt actually used them yet.

LBX is great at Short range, like it always has been decent at. When the armor comes down it is even better. Flamers, still kinda suck because of the heat. MG's are a cheap and easy way to increase your damage if your not using the slots for anything else.

Quote

From reading your posts, you show poor game knowledge, and poor knowledge of mechanics...= You are a bads, who pretty much refuses math and reason.

Edited by Vrekgar, 20 February 2013 - 12:30 AM.

[xengk]

LBX are great for brawlers who doesn't want to risk a Gauss explosion in close range and can't hit accurately with AC. Crit seeking is a bonus once you have peel away amour with other weapons.

I run into a number of pilots that place ammo in the legs to cheap out on C.A.S.E.
Ammo explosion in the leg suddenly makes they regret about that 0.5 tonne.