108 replies to this topic

[Fiona Marshe]

xThrottle Geek, on 20 February 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

I had 2 MG's sustained fire on a red CT for about 15 seconds solid last night from about 30m. Not a single crit occured.............................................................................................................................................................

That would be due to Engine Crits not being implemented. No damagable components = no crits for xp/cash

[Selfish]

Davers, on 20 February 2013 - 09:34 PM, said:

But most people don't target the legs, so you have to wear them down by yourself. And if you did that, you could have cored out a side torso.

It's pretty rare to see a PUG target legs. When I group with direct fire players they'll usually be a sport and shoot at the Right Leg on LRM boats for me, but other than the peverse pleasure of seeing ammo piñatas go boom it's not a very effective strategy. The only nice thing I can say about legs having as much armor as side torsos is that it gives the legs a high internal HP for lots of crit fishing, they are rarely full armor, and they're the last refuge of ammo for both LRM and AC boats. When the stars align..

[Kmieciu]

I tested machineguns with a friend yesterday. I used a Raven armed with only 2 machineguns. Damage to the armor was pathetic, but as soon as he lost the back armor, his ammo got critted in less than 1 second. He had 2 tonnes of AC10 ammo in the center torso, and he lost it almost immediately. The interesting part is, the ammo did not explode.

I believe the "critDamMult" is the correct parameter name, and the MG really do have +80% chance to double crit (for a total of 94% chance) and 12.5x crit multiplayer. That would mean 0.4x12,5x0,94 = 4,7 expected DPS against 2 components. That would explain why 2 machineguns can crit 2 components in 1 second.

The sad part is, when it gets fixed the MG will be useless again.

In my opinion 1,5-2 tonnes for the ability to insta-crit everything is well worth it. Yesterday I mastered the CN9-A (3xSRM6+2xML+STD260), and it`s a killing machine. If you manage to sneak behind someone, you can take them down in 2-3 salvos. But the cooldown on SRM6 is 4 seconds, so if you manage to take down a side torso on an atlas in the first salvo, you might crit his weapons with machinegun fire before the SRMs reload.

Edited by Kmieciu, 21 February 2013 - 12:02 AM.

[Thirdstar]

Kmieciu, on 20 February 2013 - 11:44 PM, said:

I tested machineguns with a friend yesterday. I used a Raven armed with only 2 machineguns. Damage to the armor was pathetic, but as soon as he lost the back armor, his ammo got critted in less than 1 second. He had 2 tonnes of AC10 ammo in the center torso, and he lost it almost immediately. The interesting part is, the ammo did not explode.

Ammo in CT is not really recommended due to what you describe, but in your case it sounds like he'd already used up all the AC10 ammo and what you blew up was the empty boxes.

[WolvesX]

Deathlike, on 20 February 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

Are we sure the mg and flamer buffs are working in this patch? It would be better for those who have used them before to test.

Smurfy seems to think that it's "not working as intended".

Note: He also says the LBX buff is working as far as he is aware.

+

You can't crit the engine =)

[Stringburka]

Davers, on 20 February 2013 - 07:32 PM, said:

A Hunchback has like, what 20 structure on it's right torso? It's easier to knock out the torso than rely on getting a crit on the AC/20. So why take a 'crit seeking' weapon?

2 MG + 1 ton of ammo will take out the AC in just over 2 seconds on average. The comparable, 2 SL/1 ML + 1 DHS would take considerably longer to take them out.

Granted, ML/SL have better other uses, but for taking out AC-20's machineguns are very useful.

It's not that I'm saying MG's are top-notch weapons, but I don't think it's fair to compare a half-ton weapon with no heat to weapon systems weighing ten times that.

Edited by Stringburka, 21 February 2013 - 06:24 AM.

[shintakie]

Stringburka, on 21 February 2013 - 06:21 AM, said:

2 MG + 1 ton of ammo will take out the AC in just over 2 seconds on average. The comparable, 2 SL/1 ML + 1 DHS would take considerably longer to take them out.

Granted, ML/SL have better other uses, but for taking out AC-20's machineguns are very useful.

It's not that I'm saying MG's are top-notch weapons, but I don't think it's fair to compare a half-ton weapon with no heat to weapon systems weighing ten times that.

Most people compare it to the SL/ML though and in every possible circumstance the SL/ML will be better than the MG. The only time a MG is better is if you want to cripple an enemy mech, but for some ridic reason not kill it. If that's your end game, go for the MGs.

[Povier]

Quote

- The Machine Gun has a 14% increased chance to crit once, an 8% increased chance to crit twice, and a 3% increased chance to crit 3 times.
- When the Machine Gun crits, it will deal 12.5x the amount of normal damage per bullet to an internal item.
- The Machine Gun crit damage is 12.5 x 0.04 = 0.5 per crit. Max crit of 3 times = 1.5.
- Due to the rate of fire, the Machine Gun is now a heavy crit seeker and will be VERY effective vs. items on non-armoured locations.

Can someone clear this up. What means internal item? Equiped items like ECM, JJs, heatsinks, guns, ammo, engine OR complete internal structure?

I ask because i play the SDR-5K for testing the new MG behavior and it didnt do the damage i expect.
As I understand the patch notes, the crits are only working on internal structure and do damage on internal structure.
Thus see my calcs:

statistical expectation and DPS (not on armored parts):
- 10 rounds per sec
- equipped 4 MGs
- E(X) = 0.33 * 0.04 dmg + 0.39 * 0.5 dmg + 0.22 * 1 dmg + 0.06 * 1.5 dmg = 0.5182 dmg per round
- 10 * 4 * 0.5182 = 20.728 DPS! (1 MG: 5.182 DPS)

It would melt all internals but it dont. I guess I misunderstand internal item, do I?

Edit:
corrected numbers

Edit2:
I honestly think that i misunderstand the critical hit system. Will the normal damage be done AND a critical hit to a critical slot? Will this work on armored parts to? Then why this sentence: "and will be VERY effective vs. items on non-armoured locations."?

Edited by Povier, 22 February 2013 - 11:01 AM.

[shintakie]

Povier, on 22 February 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

Can someone clear this up. What means internal item? Equiped items like ECM, JJs, heatsinks, guns, ammo, engine OR complete internal structure?

I ask because i play the SDR-5K for testing the new MG behavior and it didnt do the damage i expect.
As I understand the patch notes, the crits are only working on internal structure and do damage on internal structure.
Thus see my calcs:

statistical expectation and DPS (not on armored parts):
- 10 rounds per sec
- equipped 4 MGs
- E(X) = 0.33 * 0.04 dmg + 0.39 * 0.5 dmg + 0.22 * 1 dmg + 0.06 * 1.5 dmg = 0.5182 dmg per round
- 10 * 4 * 0.5182 = 20.728 DPS! (1 MG: 5.182 DPS)

It would melt all internals but it dont. I guess I misunderstand internal item, do I?

Edit:
corrected numbers

Edit2:
I honestly think that i misunderstand the critical hit system. Will the normal damage be done AND a critical hit to a critical slot? Will this work on armored parts to? Then why this sentence: "and will be VERY effective vs. items on non-armoured locations."?

Critical hits only effect internal equipment, not structure. Your MG's will forever and always only do .04 damage per bullet to internal structure regardless of how often and how hard you crit an area.

As I said in another thread, it is 100% likely that, if someone else doesn't kill it for you, you will destroy every single piece of equipment in an unarmored section long before you can make that section drop 10% of its total health.