152 replies to this topic

[Enig]

ECM's counters:

• Other ECM
  
• PPC (which also pump out plenty of damage at long range)
  
• Tag (which also functions to expedite missile locks)
  
• Component destruction
  
• Communication (We need built-in VOIP for this to truly be effective)
  
• BAP and Sensor Range to a limited extent

And they have stated here on the forums and on the NGNG podcast that they will continue to integrate systems which will interact and work as counters to ECM and other future electronic warfare packages.

So next time you spout that ECM is too cheap for 1.5 tons, just remember that every counter isn't there JUST to counter ECM, they just so happen to do that as an extra effect.

[Jonathan Paine]

ECM is CHEAP for 1.5 tons.... however, I do not miss the days of "LRM Warrior Online" and the checks and balances are getting much better.

I think you are wrong in your assumption that the (mostly) useless 1.5 ton BAP does anything to ECM. I found nothing in the notes that show BAP to have any impact on ECM.

Please make BAP as good as (if not better) than modules. Yes, I have the modules... all of them... upgraded....

[Dreepa]

You are the minority. The majority says its not fine. At least when we are talking about the people visiting the forums regularily.
Hoever, the poll has nearly up to 1000 votes, so it is probably kinda representative.

http://mwomercs.com/...ture-aftermath/

[K0M3D14N]

The majority is also completely uneducated on why ECM is an issue. It isn't an issue. It's a symptom. They see these ECM Lights (Raven 3Ls, COM-2Ds) and assume taht ECM is the problem with them. It isn't.

Streaks are.

[Mancu]

Like we needed another thread where the vocal minority tell us why their crutch isn't broken...

[Vassago Rain]

Golds gonna gold.

[General Taskeen]

ECM was perfectly fine... in other Mech Warrior games.

[K0M3D14N]

Mancu, on 20 February 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

Like we needed another thread where the vocal minority tell us why their crutch isn't broken...

Tell me why ECM is an issue on anything but a Raven 3L or a Commando 2D. By all means, enlighten me.

[FupDup]

Dreepa, on 20 February 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

You are the minority. The majority says its not fine. At least when we are talking about the people visiting the forums regularily.
Hoever, the poll has nearly up to 1000 votes, so it is probably kinda representative.

http://mwomercs.com/...ture-aftermath/

Something to be cautious of is that game forums have a built-in bias to them. People using the forums are:
1. Have been playing longer (thus more experienced and skilled most of the time, and have had more time to adjust to certain obstacles)
2. More likely to have put money into the game (related to #1)
3. Most players in any game don't ever use the forums


If the devs did an in-game survey that all players had access to, then we might get different results. Maybe the proportion of people seeking a ECM adjustments would be lower. Maybe it would be higher. Heck, maybe it might even be the exact same by some feat of magic.

Edited by FupDup, 20 February 2013 - 11:18 AM.

[Mancu]

K0M3D14N, on 20 February 2013 - 11:14 AM, said:

Tell me why ECM is an issue on anything but a Raven 3L or a Commando 2D. By all means, enlighten me.

Just read one of the 999,999 posts that already cover this topic and save me retyping it all.

[Joseph Mallan]

K0M3D14N, on 20 February 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

The majority is also completely uneducated on why ECM is an issue. It isn't an issue. It's a symptom. They see these ECM Lights (Raven 3Ls, COM-2Ds) and assume taht ECM is the problem with them. It isn't.

BOATED Streaks are.

Fixed that for ya. Streaks are only a problem when carried in mass. Most Canon Mech had one or two at most.

[K0M3D14N]

Mancu, on 20 February 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

Just read one of the 999,999 posts that already cover this topic and save me retyping it all.

I want your opinion, here and now.

The only thing ECM does for larger 'Mechs is provide security in the war of information, and even in that war you have eyes. TAG is still very, very viable for long-range fire support in the form of a Light spotting for LRMs, or LRMs spotting for themsevles. If you can honestly tell me that the changes made to PPCs to disrupt ECM on bigger 'Mechs isn't a factor, I'll be thoroughly impressed.

The only time ECM is really an issue is when you have several Light 'Mechs running ECM in conjuction (Raven 3Ls and Commando 2Ds) and even then it's really only an issue because of the insane damage they can do with the present skill basement that are Streak SRM2s.

ECM is not in and of itself a problem.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Mancu, on 20 February 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

Just read one of the 999,999 posts that already cover this topic and save me retyping it all.

none of the other posts have any valid arguments as to why its OP. They just dont like it, it makes them work harder and think instead of holding down fire-group buttons and aiming. If a light mech can be killed with 100% armor in one shot then ECM is not OP!

Edited by Funkadelic Mayhem, 20 February 2013 - 11:22 AM.

[wwiiogre]

I have to disagree, current ECM is not ECM, it is null sig and not part of the current timeline of BattleTech and the Inner Sphere.

The Current cannot lock on is the equivalent of Ghost Targeting.

Battle Tech ECM has 3 functions each with its own setting:

1. ECM which stops narc/artemis from working, note does not stop TAG
2. ECCM which stops 1 and 3
3. Ghost Targeting which is supposed to make it harder to hit the protected target has a 180meter range from host and is affected by BAP and Command Console

Currently we have ECM which does 1 & 3 (but 3 is currently null sig, no lock can be acquired except between 180-200 meters)

The best solution I can come up with is two fold, first institute a third setting on ECM, meaning either stop artemis/narc, eccm or ghost target, not 1 & 3 at same time. The real thing that ghost targeting should do is make it take longer to lock on over and above the normal time it takes to lock on to a mech. So say make it take 6 seconds to lock on to an enemy mech that is under ghost targeting. With BAP it would only take 5 seconds, with a command console it would only take 4 seconds and with both it would only take three seconds.

This follows with the lore/canon makes ecm more tactical in that you have three settings and eccm counters 1&3 at same time. It also does not make ecm OP, it gives an ecm mech time to break for cover but no longer allows it to wallow around assaults or any other mech for long periods of time unless it wants to die. Thus bringing ecm firmly back into a recon roll instead of a brawling I am immune to ssrm's and LRM's and you can't hurt me roll it currently has.

The reason I say this is ECM is and always has been a recon tool, but currently in MWO it is used for other purposes and is OP as 2 Raven 3L's will always win vs 2 Jenners with the pilots being equal. Even tho the Jenner can be faster and carries the same armament it has no chance vs more than a single raven. Thus making it OP.

Chris

[Joseph Mallan]

K0M3D14N, on 20 February 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

I want your opinion, here and now.

The only thing ECM does for larger 'Mechs is provide security in the war of information, and even in that war you have eyes. TAG is still very, very viable for long-range fire support in the form of a Light spotting for LRMs, or LRMs spotting for themsevles. If you can honestly tell me that the changes made to PPCs to disrupt ECM on bigger 'Mechs isn't a factor, I'll be thoroughly impressed.

The only time ECM is really an issue is when you have several Light 'Mechs running ECM in conjuction (Raven 3Ls and Commando 2Ds) and even then it's really only an issue because of the insane damage they can do with the present skill basement that are Streak SRM2s.

ECM is not in and of itself a problem.

The most damage Streaks can do is 30 points a salvo. So it's on par with the GaussCat. now if players didn't carry more than two there wouldn't be all this whine.

[Team Leader]

Yes, because all those things should be working together to have a chance of defeating an always-on, 0 skill required, 1.5 ton piece of equipment. Balanced.

[SinnerX]

Other ECM - An items that counters itself is extremely poor game design.
PPC (which also pump out plenty of damage at long range) - You do realize PPCs are largest, heaviest, and hottest energy weapons available, right?
Tag (which also functions to expedite missile locks) - Yes, the only real counter, which unfortunately takes up a weapon hardpoint versus something that can be stuck anywhere.
Component destruction - No.
Communication (We need built-in VOIP for this to truly be effective) - No.
BAP and Sensor Range to a limited extent - Actually, ECM counters BAP. You can argue about sensor range, which is a poor counter given the GXP and cbill cost for the module.

[Enig]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 20 February 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

none of the other posts have any valid arguments as to why its OP. They just dont like it, it makes them work harder and think instead of holding down fire-group buttons and aiming.

This right here

[K0M3D14N]

Team Leader, on 20 February 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

Yes, because all those things should be working together to have a chance of defeating an always-on, 0 skill required, 1.5 ton piece of equipment. Balanced.

Again, how is ECM an issue on anything than a Streak boated Raven 3L or Commando 2D?

Are you really getting torn apart by a freakin' Atlas because it has ECM? That giant, slow-moving monolithic thing?

[Viper69]

OP no its not ok. ECM is not what we have in the first place we have an OP version of Angel ECM go look it up.

Vassago Rain, on 20 February 2013 - 11:14 AM, said:

Golds gonna gold.

Vassago, you look like a fool jumping on the gold bashing train. Just sayin. Why not start your own trend instead of piggy backing an already ignorant train of thought.