41 replies to this topic

[hashinshin]

I mean, really PGI. They'd fill a unique niche that no other weapon fills in a cheap low range 100% uptime damage tool. Not burst, but pure sustained DPS.

Just up their DPS to like 3 total and let it be done. Nobody wants crit seekers, we want dakka dakka dakka mechs.

Stop trying to play around and just give us what the community wants. We want mechs running around playing Mechwarrior 2 intro style.

[slash b slash]

I'd prefer if they'd implement something to shoot with MGs instead. Like infantry or civilians for extra points or time like in Carmageddon.

[Team Leader]

Its been said that in TT MGs did the same damage as AC2s. I would like to see MGs doing the same DPS, or at least 2 damage a second. Reduce the ammo per ton and make them actually do damage... not .04 damage per bullet. Thats a joke.

[FupDup]

slash b slash, on 20 February 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

I'd prefer if they'd implement something to shoot with MGs instead. Like infantry or civilians for extra points or time like in Carmageddon.

I'd prefer to just use my lasers on infantry because I can click-and-drag over them for higher damage than an MG, greater accuracy (no projectile travel time), at a greater range, with infinite ammo, and with more anti-mech usefulness.


The only way to make MGs good is to help them against mechs, not infantry.

Edited by FupDup, 20 February 2013 - 11:57 AM.

[Team Leader]

Like seriously theres no reason that they have to be this way, so why have they intententionally been designed to suck horribly? The crit buff is no good... any other weapon will kill the exposed components even faster. Seriously.

Edited by Team Leader, 20 February 2013 - 11:58 AM.

[hashinshin]

slash b slash, on 20 February 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

I'd prefer if they'd implement something to shoot with MGs instead. Like infantry or civilians for extra points or time like in Carmageddon.

or mechs?

[Roughneck45]

hashinshin, on 20 February 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

We want mechs running around playing Mechwarrior 2 intro style.

So you want closed beta machine guns?

You fire them, they do nothing, and it signals your imminent death?

[FireEater222]

I dissagree with the OP. I like the noise too but don't see any reason why you can't choose another weapon for that 3pts you want, like perhaps a small laser that takes just as much weight, two less slots and is basically the same heat even I believe.
Leave MGs the annoyance and armorless crit machine it has been.

[One Medic Army]

FireEater222, on 20 February 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

I dissagree with the OP. I like the noise too but don't see any reason why you can't choose another weapon for that 3pts you want, like perhaps a small laser that takes just as much weight, two less slots and is basically the same heat even I believe.
Leave MGs the annoyance and armorless crit machine it has been.

Because some mechs have ballistics hardpoints.

[Der Geisterbaer]

VIIIRUS, on 20 February 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

If it was any higher people would mount four and annihilate mechs within seconds.

There are 3 mech variants that could actually mount 4 machine guns:

• SDR5-K
  
• CDA-3C
  
• CTF-4X

No. 1 and 2 would be the only somewhat reasonable choices for doing so ... and despite "lagshield" at maximum speed both of them have the tendancy of getting "blown away" if they actually try to go into a brawl at machine gun ranges. So while I'm surely not advocating high DPS rates, your scenario of 4 machine gun killer mechs could be slightly exagerated.

[shintakie]

One Medic Army, on 20 February 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Because some mechs have ballistics hardpoints.

Add to that, some lights rely on ballistics. That one Cicada also does as well.

If MGs aren't viable then the 5K, the ballistic Flea when it comes out, and the ballistic Cicada have no reason to exist.

[Tennex]

crit seeking is stupid.

it should do extra damage to unarmored target.

[Tarman]

One Medic Army, on 20 February 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Because some mechs have ballistics hardpoints.

I tried sticking SLs in the extra ballistic slots. I even tried to jam an SRM2 in there.

Didn't work. ;____;

[shintakie]

Tennex, on 20 February 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

crit seeking is stupid.

it should do extra damage to unarmored target.

See, I could actually get behind this, if and only if the bonus damage was friggin insane to make up for the weapon bein useless for most of the fight. We're talkin 5 or more dps per MG on unarmored sections. Really really shred those internals.

Thats about the only way makin the MG viable without outright buffin its damage would work.

Though I'd rather have a balanced fun weapon instead of a cheesy weapon.

Edited by shintakie, 20 February 2013 - 01:24 PM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Conservative MG buff:

0.8 DPS (twice of what it's now.)
Normal Range: 120m
Maximum Range: 360m
Lower Ammo/Ton by half.
Special: MG deals double damage against structure and internal components, and has an increased crit chance. No additional extra damage vs components beyond this.)

See what happens.

But we won't. Either never, or not until a few weeks have passed and MGs are no longer equipped more than they were before the "buff".

[Ursh]

Once a component is unarmored, it's about to get blown off by real weapons anyways, which is why this crit seeking stuff is stupid.

Some enterprising spider pilot will make a video I'm sure of how they got six kills in one match by wracking up ammo explosions on LRM boats or something, but overall machine guns are pretty pointless.

That Spider 5K has a really nice weapons loadout, when you put a large pulse laser on it and ignore the machine gun hardpoints.

[Wolfways]

FireEater222, on 20 February 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

I dissagree with the OP. I like the noise too but don't see any reason why you can't choose another weapon for that 3pts you want, like perhaps a small laser that takes just as much weight, two less slots and is basically the same heat even I believe.
Leave MGs the annoyance and armorless crit machine it has been.

Because when you have a K2 with PPC's and ML's you can't put anything else in the ballistic slots?

[Dvergar]

Team Leader, on 20 February 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

Its been said that in TT MGs did the same damage as AC2s. I would like to see MGs doing the same DPS, or at least 2 damage a second. Reduce the ammo per ton and make them actually do damage... not .04 damage per bullet. Thats a joke.

Here's the problem. TT rules don't account for the accuracy of video game players. Machine guns, SRMs, and LB-Xs are crit seekers because they hit numerous times or you can throw a ton of them on. Hit locations were random, and crit chance on a limb with no armor was based on the number of hits, not on damage. An AC20 had the same chance to crit as a single machine-gun round. It's not 'chance to do extra points of damage', it's 'chance to hit something critical'. A crit meant you were about to lose a weapon or an actuator, take an engine hit, stuff like that. (They were also crit seekers because you rolled 2D6 to see where the shot landed. A 12 was the head and a two was the center torso but you'd roll for a crit. If you were firing a ton of shots you had a better chance at a 2 or 12).

The whole concept of crit weapons is screwed up, and until they flat out remove MGs they won't be able to solve it properly.

[Magik0012]

How about 0.1 damage per bullet for 1 dps?
And a wee bit of heat.
And 1000 rounds per ton of ammo. (100 seconds of continuous fire)
And an option for half-ton (500 rounds) ammo bins.

[Team Leader]

Heck at this point I don't even care. If machine guns could do 1 DPS, that's a MAX of 4 damage from a full machine gun build, under 90 meters, with them constantly firing. Other weapons get huge holes in their DPS because of reload and recharge times, as well as heat. This "artificially" chops their DPS. Machine guns don't have that. Their damage translates into pure DPS, 1 second on target is a second of damage.

You have to be pointing at the guy from 90 meters away and hold down those buttons on one spot. Based on the way the bullets spray everywhere, I don't think a 2 DPS machine gun would even be that much of a threat. Sure, a spider might be able to peel some armor off the back of an inattentive atlas, but he has to be standing still and inch away. A Phracht charging into battle with 4 MGs isn't even a real threat. I say we cut ammo to 500 a ton, make MGs fire the same speed (slower, faster, I dunno beta it), and give them a DPS of 2. Lets try this guys. Forget this imaginary crit stuff, forget range increases, just let the machine gun do damage like its supposed to.

Also, I'm very tempted to break the taboo and like my own post because I think that's one of my best posts on this forum ever and I think it will really bring some variety to the game.

Edited by Team Leader, 20 February 2013 - 03:50 PM.