76 replies to this topic

[Vlad Ward]

Why did you need Streaks to hit a D-DC Atlas in the first place? You may as well just build a good Jenner and use that.

[Stoicblitzer]

all of this elitism is exhausting. 'if you can't hit a target going 150kph @ 1200m while moving 145kph and jumpjetting then you need to l2p' sigh.

[silentD11]

Stoicblitzer, on 22 February 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

all of this elitism is exhausting. 'if you can't hit a target going 150kph @ 1200m while moving 145kph and jumpjetting then you need to l2p' sigh.

It's more that people seem to want auto locking, auto hitting stuff to work all the time in all cases no matter what. Which is rather comedic and speaks a lot about them.

[Velba]

Lubalin, on 22 February 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

I have average skill, I'll admit. But, consider the skill required for each side in a duel of raven 3L vs Jenner D. Which takes more skill and which takes less? You can't tell me they require the same amount of skill for success. That's what I mean by balance.

I don't want everything to be the same either.

Edit: clarity.

I'm not sure what your trying to say here? You want two pilots of equal skill to have the same chance of success in two different mechs? Because that is not balance. These two different mechs, are not equal. They should not be equal. That is the point of having different mechs and different roles.

Now just because something is EASIER to use does not mean it is unbalanced. If the possibility is there to counter it, but you need a higher skill level to employ properly, well then that's just the way it is.

[Lubalin]

silentD11, on 22 February 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

It's more that people seem to want auto locking, auto hitting stuff to work all the time in all cases no matter what. Which is rather comedic and speaks a lot about them.

I don't recall anyone saying that. I surely don't. My Phract 4x w/ 2x ac2 and 2x uac5 is insanely fun.

[Velba]

Stoicblitzer, on 22 February 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

all of this elitism is exhausting. 'if you can't hit a target going 150kph @ 1200m while moving 145kph and jumpjetting then you need to l2p' sigh.

I don't think anyone here has said that. Except for you and your shattered ego.

[KinLuu]

The key tool to defeat ECM lights in a light is the SRM4.

But it is hard.

[Lubalin]

Velba, on 22 February 2013 - 01:45 PM, said:

I'm not sure what your trying to say here? You want two pilots of equal skill to have the same chance of success in two different mechs? Because that is not balance. These two different mechs, are not equal. They should not be equal. That is the point of having different mechs and different roles.

Now just because something is EASIER to use does not mean it is unbalanced. If the possibility is there to counter it, but you need a higher skill level to employ properly, well then that's just the way it is.

Don't these mechs have essentially the same role for the majority of solo drop games, that tend to devolve into a brawl?

And even if not, what strategy is left for light mech pilots who don't have ecm? A light mech hunter like a 3L with ecm and ssrm is going to do nothing but chase you down. You can't scout. You can't harass bigger mechs. It completely locks you down. The counter requires a vast skill advantage. That's why people aren't playing non-ecm lights much right now.

KinLuu, on 22 February 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

The key tool to defeat ECM lights in a light is the SRM4.

But it is hard.

Thanks, I'll have to give that a try.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sug, on 22 February 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

I've been having good luck with my TBT-7M with 2 ppcs and 3 ssrms. 300xl.

Didn't take erppcs because of heat issues. Plus normal ppcs will take out ecm just as good under 90m.

Just use the ppcs to take out their ecm and blow them to hell with the ssrms as they circle you. Pretty easy.




lol i didn't want to say it.

I use 1 ERPPC 2x ML and 2x SRM4 on my Treb. I had the joy of chasing a Raven into the ground at only 107 KpH. Oh the extacy!

[Mystere]

Lubalin, on 22 February 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

Standing still to train a ppc is not an option in a light ...

Who said anything about standing still?

For the last two weeks or so, I've been practicing "run and gun" tactics using various combinations of TAG, PPCs, LRMs, SRMs, and SSRM2s specifically to get at those pesky Raven 3Ls and lumbering Atlas D-DCs. I just happened to be doing it in Awesomes to place my Pretty Baby at master level. Sure, I missed and died a whole lot of times. But, I am getting the hang of it.

As the old saying goes: Practice makes perfect.

Stoicblitzer, on 22 February 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

all of this elitism is exhausting. 'if you can't hit a target going 150kph @ 1200m while moving 145kph and jumpjetting then you need to l2p' sigh.

Who here said such a thing?

Edited by Mystere, 22 February 2013 - 02:06 PM.

[Velba]

Lubalin, on 22 February 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

Don't these mechs have essentially the same role for the majority of solo drop games, that tend to devolve into a brawl?

And even if not, what strategy is left for light mech pilots who don't have ecm? A light mech hunter like a 3L with ecm and ssrm is going to do nothing but chase you down. You can't scout. You can't harass bigger mechs. It completely locks you down. The counter requires a vast skill advantage. That's why people aren't playing non-ecm lights much right now.



Thanks, I'll have to give that a try.

That's my point. In a skill based game like this one, you are going to see this. It's just a part of life. You have to know what your mech can and cannot do. If your light does not have ECM, and your are not incredibly skilled. Your probably not going to be able to beat a 3L in a 1v1, just the nature of the beast.

EDIT: Something you can do, is stand withing 100m of a big mech on your team and be it's battle buddy. And hope that it can shoot the light's your shooting off it's back.

Edited by Velba, 22 February 2013 - 02:03 PM.

[ElLocoMarko]

I'm believe ECM should be available for all.
Make it ubiquitous and it ceases to be overpowered...
And maybe everyone shuts up about it.

Edited by ElLocoMarko, 22 February 2013 - 02:03 PM.

[Lubalin]

Velba, on 22 February 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

That's my point. In a skill based game like this one, you are going to see this. It's just a part of life. You have to know what your mech can and cannot do. If your light does not have ECM, and your are not incredibly skilled. Your probably not going to be able to beat a 3L in a 1v1, just the nature of the beast.

EDIT: Something you can do, is stand withing 100m of a big mech on your team and be it's battle buddy. And hope that it can shoot the light's your shooting off it's back.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll give that a try.

I still disagree. We have different definitions of balance. I'd hope that someone with superior skill could excel rather than just break even. Especially in a skill-based game, as you described it.

I know you'll say that skill involves steering clear of situations your mech is not suited for. But, I'd argue that lights without ecm aren't really suited for much at all. They're just a meal on a silver platter for the inevitable raven 3L.

[Mystere]

Lubalin, on 22 February 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

I know you'll say that skill involves steering clear of situations your mech is not suited for. But, I'd argue that lights without ecm aren't really suited for much at all. They're just a meal on a silver platter for the inevitable raven 3L.

Well, you can always use your light to draw him away from his team and lure him into yours.

[Velba]

Lubalin, on 22 February 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll give that a try.

I still disagree. We have different definitions of balance. I'd hope that someone with superior skill could excel rather than just break even. Especially in a skill-based game, as you described it.

I know you'll say that skill involves steering clear of situations your mech is not suited for. But, I'd argue that lights without ecm aren't really suited for much at all. They're just a meal on a silver platter for the inevitable raven 3L.

Lights without ECM are really good in a support role. Defending mechs from other lights, scouting, adding their firepower to a key enemy mech, ETC.
But that is their role EVEN with ECM. If you want a mech to do damage and get kills, run a medium or bigger. Don't try to take your mech outside of it's role.

If you have a proper team that stays withing 100-250m or so of each other, that single raven wont be able to do much, but take damage form all the overlapping sectors of fire of your team. It will die, and it's ECM will be wasted for their team.

If you have a PUG team, that isolates into teams of 2 and lone wolfs, your best counter to the enemy, your team, just defeated it's self. And that lone raven ECM now finds isolated mechs, and ruins them, one of the roles it can be used for.

EDIT: Superior equipment will always give you a bigger advantage than superior skill.

IE You you are better than someone, but they have better gear, that gear gives them more of an advantage, than your superiority in skill over them. However, if you are smart, there are ways to negate their gear advantage. That's just part of the thinking man's game.

Edited by Velba, 22 February 2013 - 02:22 PM.

[Lubalin]

Velba, on 22 February 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

Lights without ECM are really good in a support role. Defending mechs from other lights, scouting, adding their firepower to a key enemy mech, ETC.
But that is their role EVEN with ECM. If you want a mech to do damage and get kills, run a medium or bigger. Don't try to take your mech outside of it's role.

If you have a proper team that stays withing 100-250m or so of each other, that single raven wont be able to do much, but take damage form all the overlapping sectors of fire of your team. It will die, and it's ECM will be wasted for their team.

If you have a PUG team, that isolates into teams of 2 and lone wolfs, your best counter to the enemy, your team, just defeated it's self. And that lone raven ECM now finds isolated mechs, and ruins them, one of the roles it can be used for.

EDIT: Superior equipment will always give you a bigger advantage than superior skill.

IE You you are better than someone, but they have better gear, that gear gives them more of an advantage, than your superiority in skill over them. However, if you are smart, there are ways to negate their gear advantage. That's just part of the thinking man's game.

So if I'm relying on bigger mechs to shoot down the lights with ecm, why pilot a light without ecm at all? I can't really defend them if I can't shoot down an ecm light. Bigger mechs defend themselves.

And, /thread. You just admitted that a raven with ecm is superior equipment. Why bother with a different light if that's how it's supposed to work? Won't everyone just drive ravens? If skill doesn't matter, how, exactly, is this a competitive game?

[Velba]

Lubalin, on 22 February 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

So if I'm relying on bigger mechs to shoot down the lights with ecm, why pilot a light without ecm at all? I can't really defend them if I can't shoot down an ecm light. Bigger mechs defend themselves.

And, /thread. You just admitted that a raven with ecm is superior equipment. Why bother with a different light if that's how it's supposed to work? Won't everyone just drive ravens? If skill doesn't matter, how, exactly, is this a competitive game?

Yes, all the losers will run the easiest build they can, and when proper drop restrictions/limits are put into place, the people who have been cheesing the system will have hell to pay. Again skill does matter, because a higher skilled person will know how to beat ECM.
If you can't shoot a light with ECM, you can't shoot a light. If you can't shoot a light, you need to get better at the game.
If you can't shoot a light with ECM because of the ECM, you need to either make a better build, or use your teammates as ECM counters.

Its not about relying on your teammates, but working WITH them.

You keep asserting that skill doesn't matter, after I've given you skill based resolutions to an ECM problem.

This thread is indeed over. It's been full of you ignoring skill based resolutions and trying to apply a light mech outside of it's role. Then QQing when you get wrecked. Either adapt your tactics or die.

[Shazarad]

Lubalin, on 22 February 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

So if I'm relying on bigger mechs to shoot down the lights with ecm, why pilot a light without ecm at all? I can't really defend them if I can't shoot down an ecm light. Bigger mechs defend themselves.

And, /thread. You just admitted that a raven with ecm is superior equipment. Why bother with a different light if that's how it's supposed to work? Won't everyone just drive ravens? If skill doesn't matter, how, exactly, is this a competitive game?

Everyone DOES drive Ravens. And skill matters, in a Raven vs Raven match.

[Stoicblitzer]

Velba, on 22 February 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

I don't think anyone here has said that. Except for you and your shattered ego.

hyperbole. l2p.

[Velba]

Stoicblitzer, on 22 February 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

hyperbole. l2p.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means