25 replies to this topic

[Olibob]

The match score seems to very heavily favour the heavier mechs that do more damage. Just now had a PUG game, assault on forest colony. I was in a commando 1D and did 315 damage, 1 kill and 3 or 4 assists, which I think is pretty damn good considering there was only 1 light per team, but I was only ranked 7th out of all the players... The match score for me is too tightly linked to damage done. Perhaps there should be a multiplier for lighter mechs...

[Rocket2Uranus]

lol.

light mechs are NOT made for damage. and sadly the game is about damage done and kills.
sorry buddy, you wanna do a lot more damage, hop in a assault mech and feel dah POWAH

[Olibob]

It's not that I want to do more damage, it's that I want it recognised that lighter mechs have less potential to do damage, so that should be reflected in the score. If I do 300 damage in a commando and someone does 300 damage in an atlas, at the moment we'd get the same score, but is that really right? I'd argue it's a lot more impressive doing it in a commando...

I've also noticed since the match scoring has come in there are a lot less light and medium mechs about. It's all cataphracts, stalkers and atlases. There's no incentive to use a light mech at all.

[Mild Monkey]

Olibob, on 23 February 2013 - 02:28 AM, said:

It's not that I want to do more damage, it's that I want it recognised that lighter mechs have less potential to do damage, so that should be reflected in the score. If I do 300 damage in a commando and someone does 300 damage in an atlas, at the moment we'd get the same score, but is that really right? I'd argue it's a lot more impressive doing it in a commando...

I've also noticed since the match scoring has come in there are a lot less light and medium mechs about. It's all cataphracts, stalkers and atlases. There's no incentive to use a light mech at all.

I feel you! I'm partial about my Hunchie 4SP and I can deal up to 700 damage under certain circumstances, but that's not my task. I am there to close the gaps, to strike and withdraw, to be the link between the lights and the brawlers, able to fall back and defend the snipers if they are in need. It is quite complicated to reflect all the benefits the pilot of a certain class is giving to their team in terms other than kills and damage. For instance, assault mechs and scout mechs alike get the same score for spotting an enemy mech. That's wrong, too, same as with the damage dealt.

[WaddeHaddeDudeda]

The good thing about this [irony]awesome[/irony] new ELO system is that its not weightclass based anymore.
So why should I take a medium if I run into 4 lights and 4 assaults YET AGAIN?

Btw: Rocket, i love that name!
Probably alter the capitalization to Rocket2UrAnus. ^^

[Olibob]

I don't really mind it if there are different weight classes on different teams, but it would be interesting to know if it's balanced by anything else apart from ELO, total tonnage for example. Could a scenario come up where you have 8 spiders against 8 atlases?

[Snib]

And match score matters why?

[Bilaz]

Snib, on 23 February 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

And match score matters why?

c- bills. more score - more money per game.

For instance there was funny match where we had 5 lights + 2 cicadas and hostiles like 3-4 proper meds. But its conquest and once it became obvious i started running around and capturing points. Well i got caught by a raven + death knell pair and got killed at 700 or something points with more than half bases ours. What do i get for my effort? nothing. Should have killed myself sooner trying to outtank and outhoot meds.

[Gigastrike]

You could try adding a tag.

[arghmace]

Bilaz, on 23 February 2013 - 05:51 AM, said:

c- bills. more score - more money per game.

But you don't get c-bills based on match score, do you? I don't think match score has any relevance for now.

[Bilaz]

arghmace, on 23 February 2013 - 06:51 AM, said:

But you don't get c-bills based on match score, do you? I don't think match score has any relevance for now.

Yes, its more likely that you get more money based on exp, but still you will more likely get more *everything* from pure damage dealer than from scout or anti-tackler. say your team is capturing and you move to guard base and get killed while doing that. Have you not done that - everyone would have lost - so you get 0 more exp, 0 more score, 0 more c-bills and ofc your k/d ratio declines, but your team benefits from your actons and i think thats not just.

[arghmace]

Yes you get more xp and credits if you're a damage dealer but that's not because of how the match score is calculated

[Mishatron]

Gigastrike, on 23 February 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

You could try adding a tag.

I've been running a tagging jenner for many matches, and even when I get multiple "TAG/NARC Assists", my match score is still pretty low unless I manage to do a lot of damage and get kills.

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

Problem: Lights don't get no points!

Why?: Cause they don't do no damage!

Solution: In Mechwarrior Living Legends this was over come by creating a system that gives a mech bonus for attacking heavier assets. I'd have no issue with that happening here, as long as it's done correctly. That way I get bonus if my Heavy attacks an Assault, yet my bonus would be less than if your light attacked the same assault, and kills count for the same no matter who does it! Now this isn't to say the light would automatically get 10000xp/10000c-bill just for shooting an assault one time, no in fact it would be a boost based on the damage he inflicts on a heavier asset. If he manages to beat the assault single handed then he would get a greater bonus then if he isn't the one doing all the damage. If he is tangling with a medium he would get a bonus but not as large as if he attacked the assault.

Examples:

Attacking Light, Defending Assault = 15% bonus
Attacking Light, Defending Heavy = 10% bonus
Attacking Light, Defending Medium = 5% bonus
Attacking light, Defending Light = 0% bonus

Attacking Medium, Defending Assault = 10% bonus
Attacking Medium, Defending Heavy = 5% bonus
Attacking Medium, Defending Medium = 0% bonus
Attacking Medium, Defending Light = 0% bonus

I'm sure you can figure out the rest from here.

[TheFlyingScotsman]

Olibob, on 20 February 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

The match score seems to very heavily favour the heavier mechs that do more damage. Just now had a PUG game, assault on forest colony. I was in a commando 1D and did 315 damage, 1 kill and 3 or 4 assists, which I think is pretty damn good considering there was only 1 light per team, but I was only ranked 7th out of all the players... The match score for me is too tightly linked to damage done. Perhaps there should be a multiplier for lighter mechs...

You say that... But you probably also have not seen a Cicada 2A deal 700 in a match. I agree 100% that matches favor heavier mechs, but that doesn't mean they either will or do always outperform lighter variants. The problem is that most players take a very blunt approach to any game, and are unwilling to strategize beyond brawl and hold alpha. Can parkour spiders deal 500 damage in a match and live to the end? Of course. Can more than a handful of people in the MWO community actually perform that well? Hell naw.

The trick isn't finding the "best mech/class combo," it's learning how to play the mechs you like the way they actually work. While there are chassis that break these general stereotypes, most of them will perform poorly or appear "crappy" because the pilot is incorrectly using them. Lights are intended to be scouts, cappers and diversions. Mediums are support/mobile fire bases intended to stay among their larger counterparts and avoid open brawls or soloing. Heavies are the primary damage dealing force and Assaults are battering rams that can take a beating and suppress enemies as they charge, rather than sitting back and sniping.

When every class performs its role instead of blindly attacking or trying to camp and fire, your team wins.

[Lazydrones541]

Real scenario: (true stuff)

Played a match (obviously)

Enemy team: 2 heavies 2 assaults1 med 3 lights.

My team: 3 Assaults 3 heavies 1 med 1 light.

Who do you think won? Well the team with the lights.

Youve obviously never seen a flock of lights properly take out a team.
Weight class doesnt always (while does play a role) significantly weigh the fights. It is how coordinated and or skilled the players are. I have seen relatively balanced fights a majority of the games ive played.

[Olibob]

Sorry, the last 2 posters seem to have missed the point a bit here...

It's not about which team wins, I'm well aware that lights can and often do beat heavies, this is PURELY about the match score. Like theflyingscotsman says, lights are intended to cap, harass, scout etc. But you don't get any credit for doing that in the match score.

In my Commando earlier today, did 300 damage, 3 kills and 2 assists and a fair amount of spotting assists, capping etc, but someone in an atlas on my team does 320 damage but no kills, no assists and gets a higher match score than me.

That's why I think the match score doesn't reflect the value to the team of a player. I appreciate it would be difficult to implement but it's worth thinking about isn't it?

[SteelWarrior]

Rocket2Uranus, on 20 February 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

lol.

light mechs are NOT made for damage. and sadly the game is about damage done and kills.
sorry buddy, you wanna do a lot more damage, hop in a assault mech and feel dah POWAH

WRONG



I average 500-550 damage a game in my Jenner.

[Alik Kerensky]

Olibob, on 23 February 2013 - 02:28 AM, said:

It's not that I want to do more damage, it's that I want it recognised that lighter mechs have less potential to do damage, so that should be reflected in the score. If I do 300 damage in a commando and someone does 300 damage in an atlas, at the moment we'd get the same score, but is that really right? I'd argue it's a lot more impressive doing it in a commando...

I've also noticed since the match scoring has come in there are a lot less light and medium mechs about. It's all cataphracts, stalkers and atlases. There's no incentive to use a light mech at all.

I use a Jenner D all the time and can dish out some serious damage fairly often.

Mild Monkey, on 23 February 2013 - 03:22 AM, said:

I feel you! I'm partial about my Hunchie 4SP and I can deal up to 700 damage under certain circumstances, but that's not my task. I am there to close the gaps, to strike and withdraw, to be the link between the lights and the brawlers, able to fall back and defend the snipers if they are in need. It is quite complicated to reflect all the benefits the pilot of a certain class is giving to their team in terms other than kills and damage. For instance, assault mechs and scout mechs alike get the same score for spotting an enemy mech. That's wrong, too, same as with the damage dealt.

I think the spotting bonus should refelect how often the opponet is hit with support fire, how long one keeps lock, and/or reestablishes lock once broken for the support mechs regardless of mech class. This 1 bonus per mech thing is kinda lame and encourages a spotter (only interested in bonus) to switch targets even though an Ideal target is available.

Werewolf486, on 23 February 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

Problem: Lights don't get no points!

Why?: Cause they don't do no damage!

Solution: In Mechwarrior Living Legends this was over come by creating a system that gives a mech bonus for attacking heavier assets. I'd have no issue with that happening here, as long as it's done correctly. That way I get bonus if my Heavy attacks an Assault, yet my bonus would be less than if your light attacked the same assault, and kills count for the same no matter who does it! Now this isn't to say the light would automatically get 10000xp/10000c-bill just for shooting an assault one time, no in fact it would be a boost based on the damage he inflicts on a heavier asset. If he manages to beat the assault single handed then he would get a greater bonus then if he isn't the one doing all the damage. If he is tangling with a medium he would get a bonus but not as large as if he attacked the assault.

Examples:

Attacking Light, Defending Assault = 15% bonus
Attacking Light, Defending Heavy = 10% bonus
Attacking Light, Defending Medium = 5% bonus
Attacking light, Defending Light = 0% bonus

Attacking Medium, Defending Assault = 10% bonus
Attacking Medium, Defending Heavy = 5% bonus
Attacking Medium, Defending Medium = 0% bonus
Attacking Medium, Defending Light = 0% bonus

I'm sure you can figure out the rest from here.

Lights do plenty of damage, but I'd like to see points based on type of weapons used... i.e. more for direct fire and less for lock on. Not much difference mind you, using LRMs on some maps is an art, but things like streaks which take little to no effort to use.

Edited by Alik Kerensky, 23 February 2013 - 03:36 PM.

[Snib]

arghmace, on 23 February 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

Yes you get more xp and credits if you're a damage dealer but that's not because of how the match score is calculated

Sure you get c-bills for damage dealt, but it's only a small part of the total reward, around 15% maybe. You get much more for all the various assists, i.e. all the things a light mech racks up easily.

Besides if you cannot deal damage in your light mech you simply need to learn how to play. Well piloted lights live longer than other mechs on the battlefield and thus have much more time to dish out the hurt. It's very rare that I'm not at least in the top 3 damage dealers of my team when playing my Commando.

Oh, and the match I just played shows you can get highest match-score in the team with only second highest damage dealt: