35 replies to this topic

[BirdToes]

Oh, sir, you really must try Alpine in Conquest mode. Get yourself in a reasonably speedy* 'mech and enjoy.

Edit: (*) 90+ kph will do.

Edited by BirdToes, 21 February 2013 - 10:57 AM.

[Khobai]

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I don't think this is really a reasonable requirement.

Why not. Assaults can make it back in time on all the other maps. Why should Alpine be so different? All that does it make Assaults less worth taking.

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Oh, sir, you really must try Alpine in Conquest mode. Get yourself in a reasonably speedy (90+ kph will do) 'mech and enjoy.

Alpine on Conquest is pretty fun I have to admit. But on base assault its got some serious issues with base rushing.

[Major Scumbag]

At least you guys and gals have seen Alpine map. I played about 5 hours of game play since patch. Still havent see it. They need to put this in a quicker rotation.

Edited by Major Scumbag, 21 February 2013 - 11:02 AM.

[Bilbo]

Khobai, on 21 February 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

Why not. Assaults can make it back in time on all the other maps. Why should Alpine be so different? All that does it make Assaults less worth taking.

That would depend on which assaults you are speaking of. The only map you can reliably make it back with slower mechs is River City.

[Titan Osis]

Nope, its fine the way it is, if you're losing to this its because you have a dumb team and are playing bad.

[Baltasar]

Never had a problem on assault really. Only once was capped and just barely...and that was because we weren't paying close attention. Have dropped heavy before on alpine and you know what we did. We didn't push far from the base at all. sent a med mech a little further to, you know, scout and find the enemy and then just waited, and what do you know, they found us while we were in a good defensive position and victory was achieved. Locating the enemy first, before any major push, is a must....I like that because more people who just rush out are punished even harder on this map.

On conquest mode is the rough part. With imbalanced teams as far as speed goes, the team with the slower mechs can pretty easily be outcapped. Basically if you are a light start capping. If you get too far behind you will lose. I can see possibly raising the cap score in conquest but assault is fine. Just, again, defend your base and scout first, before moving. Knowledge is power and all that.

[Ghogiel]

Khobai, on 21 February 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

Why not. Assaults can make it back in time on all the other maps. Why should Alpine be so different? All that does it make Assaults less worth taking.




Alpine on Conquest is pretty fun I have to admit. But on base assault its got some serious issues with base rushing.

I have finally had one game now where it ended in cap. I had a good game, 3 kills and 1000+ damage, it came down to an atlas and STK on my team. And a commando on theirs which was kinda hurt, I nearly had him, who ran off.

The commando would have had zero chance at winning that match if it weren't for him having the option to cap.

If the option to cap is there, take it. With the no limit weight drops and random matching it might actually be the best/only option.

[PurpleNinja]

By my short experience on Alpine Assault, one of the teams will always camp by their base and will win.
If both try this manuever, by the time they figure this out there's no time left to do anything.

Edited by PurpleNinja, 21 February 2013 - 11:09 AM.

[Lee Ving]

Torquemada, on 21 February 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

Or your team could work together to be prepared for a contingency like this with two fast response mechs able to high tail it back to your base to clear out intruders? Team tactics do work and on Alpine a team that just charges forward with no thought deserves to lose by having their base capped behind them.

By the time you are within 2-3 grids of the enemy base, you do not have time to return if they stack 2+ with cap accelerators. We ran into this last night when some unmentionables sent 3 lights and camped with 5 heavies by their base.

Myself and another member in 3Ls on an 8 ended with 0 0 and I'd made it half way back to our base when it was finished being capp'd.

Moral? Set up at least one guy with overwatch to slow such manoeuvres.

[ICEFANG13]

Haha! LEARN TO PLAY! NOTHING CAN BE WRONG!

Conquest and Assault and base times, and mech speed, and 8 on 8 and weaponry all work different on Alpine. I agree, I think that currently, its not quite right. Losing a weight class (light, heavies), or a role (direct fire support, tankers), is like losing 2 of a chess piece (rooks, bishops). In Alpine, that disadvantage is much much larger, and ECM makes scouting a fair deal harder as well as the map. Maybe in 12v12, it will be ok, but right now, it is a little too big to be covered effectively. Room to engage, good, no ability to force engagements, bad (ideally, you want both spread out on the map).

Its harder to see the problem as a light mech pilot, but watching our heavier units derp around, while they derped, its kinda obvious. And then there is the new possibly of them having a faster team, what are you going to do about that? 3 3Ls vs no light mechs conquest? Who wins that? I miss the old weight system...

[Lukoi Banacek]

Khobai, on 21 February 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

Um i can play a light mech and win 90% of alpine base assaults. Because the other team is too far away to get back by the time I cap with a cap accelerator. But I dont do it because its boring. Half the time the other team doesnt even have light mechs or if they do its some troll spider. The other half of the time they might have a Raven-3L and if I beat them I cap the base.

I would have absolutely no problem with capping going as fast as it does if it still matched up weight classes like it used to. But when it gives lights to one team and not to the other the team with lights has a serious advantage on that map.

Again if youre pugging youre not always guaranteed to have a fast mech on your team. You could have all slow mechs. That is the whole issue. Obviously if youre doing 4-mans or 8-mans you deserve it if you get capped.

If you don't choose to use the capping aspect to your advantage because you find it boring, that's on you. It's a choice you've made. You're making a decision, much like someone choosing to take a SRM36 A1 risks being at a disadvantage on Alpine. But don't think your choice should hold any weight in regards to whether or not the Devs change the map conditions (aka cap timer) to meet your view of balance.

If you find yourself on a map with no lights....guess what...you have to adapt your tactics to meet the limitations of your loadout! Simple as that.

At the end of the day, if PUGs don't work together, quickly formulate a general plan in chat, assign a role or two....then it's not going to matter anyway. Just like in the above example where two pilots went to watch the scenary and sunset rather than fight and got capped for it....you cannot balance a map based on the absurd behavior of a couple of pilots who may or may not care if they win or understand how to win.

There's nothing imbalancing about any of the maps right now. People just want an easy button to press that gives them the same simple tactics over and over rather than adjusting based on the many variables thrown at them.

[bloodnor]

never seen the enemy base last time i played on AP i seemed to be fodder holding off the enemy while in my 4x ER PPC + med pulse laser stalker (i took out 3) peeking over the ridge over and over again. while my team capped. maybe next time

[Jacmac]

Khobai, on 21 February 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

Base cap on Alpine should take 50%-75% longer than it currently does. The way it is now... you either have to camp close to your base or you have to capture the enemy base before they capture yours. Both of which are boring. Obviously base assault is a horribly flawed game mode and needs a long-term fix to prevent base rushing. But this is certainly a short-term measure that can be employed to make Alpine more fun.

Lengthening the base capture time wouldn't really change anything.

I'm really surprised that PGI has not already phased out the current version of Assault which is horribly flawed on all maps. They should have implemented something more dynamic, like attack/defend with random drop locations. There is nothing wrong with base capture, it's just that on Assault there should be only one base, not two. The victory conditions should be based on the defense or capture of the base. The base and the drop points should not always be in the same spot. I don't know if the guys responsible for that aspect of the game design are narrow-minded or simply too busy to make any headway in this area, but I hope they change things to be more dynamic before players quit out of sheer boredom. The limited number of maps are already making the game stale, the fixed drop and base locations just highlight the limit.

Edited by Jacmac, 21 February 2013 - 11:24 AM.

[Khobai]

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[Lengthening the base capture time wouldn't really change anything.

like I said in my OP it would be a short term solution only. The long-term solution is to fix base assault properly.

[Nonoka]

Why not just defend the ******* base from the start?

[Malora Sidewinder]

Torquemada, on 21 February 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

Or your team could work together to be prepared for a contingency like this with two fast response mechs able to high tail it back to your base to clear out intruders? Team tactics do work and on Alpine a team that just charges forward with no thought deserves to lose by having their base capped behind them.

Actually I was saying exactly this yesterday, but after 2 games on alpine that were decided by base capping when the other team was down 7-0 i just can't reasonably say it's fair anymore. a single scout runs away after you rip his weapons off and you have to DROP TANK and BUM RUSH to THEIR base in order to outcap them more quickly.

honestly i really did think the same way you do right now yesterday, but i have to admit i was mistaken.