32 replies to this topic

[Flux Reversal]

Wow there are soo many teams actively looking for members! Like so many other players looking for the right team to join I made a thread and posted in the Hiring Hall. I greatly appreciate everyone that contacted me but I found myself overwhelmed with the number of responses!

Some of the recruitment threads are very long-winded, no offense, and there are many of them. Most of the teams that have sites require registration. To register at everyone just to get some basic info is a daunting task. Especially for someone who wants to be thorough. I do not know about any of you but I do not want to join just any team or the first team that comes along. I want to feel like I have made a good choice and I do not want to waste time jumping from team to team looking for the right fit.

It would be cool and highly recommended if every team that has a thread or posts a new one would follow the same informative format at the very top of their threads. This makes it easy for the individuals shopping around to get basic questions answered right away.

Here is the format I suggest:

Team Name:
Web Site Address:
VOIP Type and Address:
Team Active Since: (date here)
Created For MWO or Existed Already?:
Type of Community: (multi-gaming, social, mech, ect.)
Other Games Actively Supported:
How Many Members Expected to Play MWO?:
Total Team Members:
Atmosphere/Environment: (Adult, Christian, Family, ect.)
Mech Lore Based Team?:
Mech Faction Preferences if Any:
Members Mainly Located Where Geographically?:

[Threat Doc]

That's not a bad idea... I know it's not a requirement, but I'm going to use it, now... gimme a few minutes, hehe.

Alright, here you go... http://mwomercs.com/...eddon-unlimited

That's not a bad idea, in fact, but I had a couple of things to add; do with them what you might.

Edited by Kay Wolf, 30 May 2012 - 04:36 PM.

[Flux Reversal]

Cool! Too bad none of the other teams are doing it.

[Threat Doc]

Well, and I've always been a sucker for forms and organization, so I -likely in a very odd manner- enjoy doing stuff like this. Not everyone does; indeed, I would tend to classify most folks as more "free-form".

[Flux Reversal]

Yeah, from an organizational perspective it's definitely common sense IMO. I mean they did it for individuals looking for a team so it only makes sense for teams to follow a set format.

Teams cant assume their long winded recruitment thread will be the one an individual shopping for a new team will take the time to read among SO many others.

I mean the whole purpose of the recruitment threads are to get recruits. If there were only a few teams available my argument would have no ground. But from a recruiting standpoint, being one team among so many others in such a large active community as this, you have to put yourself in the shoes of the person who is looking to join a team.

Do not assume your team is so frikn great, awesome and famous that everyone breathing knows everything about it. Help the info flow freely.

[Threat Doc]

The problem is, not everyone thinks that way. Many of the "Commanders" on here only want to get a group of friends together and play the game, with little interest towards specific recruits. There are also units, like AU, that take the opposite direction, though not with the same fervor as what's in your OP, and then there are units all up and down that scale.

[Flux Reversal]

To me, if they are taking the time to come bump a recruiting thread every day then they are concerned about growth obviously. There are about two pages of recruiting threads here that get bumped daily. Out those two pages worth of teams threads, every one of those teams expects in some way for that thread to generate a look and for that individual looking at it to read it. Some of those initial posts on allot of those threads are wordy and long-winded. And none of them provide the information most frequently sought.

[Firefly]

This may seem to be a dickish or elitist reply, but it needs to be said.

Speaking ONLY for myself and therefore for my merc unit which falls into the category of "taking the time to come bump a recruiting thread every day then they are concerned about growth obviously", if you (generally-speaking you, not you specifically) can't decipher the basic needs from a recruitment thread... if you instead need a template with bullet points... if you need a TL/DR version for something which amounts to two or three paragraphs...

... then you (again, generally speaking) aren't welcome in my merc unit. I need capable, INTELLIGENT warriors. I don't need idiots who are no good at anything besides being cannon fodder. I don't want to have to micromanage and hand-hold, I don't want to have to play Q&A in forum PMs or over Teamspeak, and I don't want to have to waste my time making sure my recruits "get it". We're not elitist, but we don't want the average low-rent barrel-scrapings. We are organised and we are coordinated. That requires a modicum of intelligence and a basic public school education should be sufficient to join our not-outrageously-difficult-to-join team. Our plan is to kick the **** out of everyone, get paid for it, and have lulz afterwards about how monstrously enraged some people get over their serious game. That requires capable people who can follow instructions and think for themselves, and have more than a six-second attention span.

A little bit of intuition and self-sufficiency makes a 'Mech pilot an invaluable asset. Everything else is just a target. Sorry that bothers you.

Edited by Firefly, 11 June 2012 - 08:59 AM.

[Stewdiggy]

I would just be happy if most recruiting Merc Corps would list either

1: when the majority of their players play. (if they play during the day and I play at night or I play at night and they usually play at "late night", then I would never get to play with them)

or
2: what time zone most of their players are in.

A lot of the Merc recruiting pages aren't listing this, and to be honest, the game is still so young, that they might not know. But in my opinion it doesn't do a recruit any good to join a Merc corp if say thTey are on the west coast and the majority of the Corp is on the east coast.


-- hope this makes sense, had to type it out on my phone.

[Kyle Hawkins]

Firefly, on 11 June 2012 - 07:39 AM, said:

This may seem to be a dickish or elitist reply, but it needs to be said.

Speaking ONLY for myself and therefore for my merc unit which falls into the category of "taking the time to come bump a recruiting thread every day then they are concerned about growth obviously", if you (generally-speaking you, not you specifically) can't decipher the basic needs from a recruitment thread... if you instead need a template with bullet points... if you need a TL/DR version for something which amounts to two or three paragraphs...

... then you (again, generally speaking) aren't welcome in my merc unit. I need capable, INTELLIGENT warriors. I don't need idiots who are no good at anything besides being cannon fodder. I don't want to have to micromanage and hand-hold, I don't want to have to play Q&A in forum PMs or over Teamspeak, and I don't want to have to waste my time making sure my recruits "get it". We're not elitist, but we don't want the average low-rent barrel-scrapings. We are organised and we are coordinated. That requires a modicum of intelligence and a basic public school education should be sufficient to join our not-outrageously-difficult-to-join team. Our plan is to kick the **** out of everyone, get paid for it, and have lulz afterwards about how monstrously enraged some people get over their serious game. That requires capable people who can follow instructions and think for themselves, and have more than a six-second attention span.

A little bit of intuition and self-sufficiency makes a 'Mech pilot an invaluable asset. Everything else is just a target. Sorry that bothers you.

For someone making such demands about being able to read and decipher basic information, you clearly haven't put much time into properly understanding the OP's post and intentions.

Yes, any literate potential recruit with half a brain can certainly read through a there paragraph recruitment post and get the gist of what that group is about. However considering that the majority of the recruitment pages here often amount to something 10 to 20 times the size of the "two or three paragraphs" you state, some going through multiple posts and many requiring you to register on other forums and websites, I think you're simplifying things a bit. It can take anywhere between 10 minutes to an hour.

Next take a step out of your own merc company for a second and try to realize that there are some 100+ groups out here all vying for attention, with different expectations, organization and backgrounds. Put them all together and you have hours upon hours of potential investigation to sift through. Which is where the entire point of Ozy's suggestion comes in.

All that was asked here is for a few basic outlines of what to expect from a group. To be able to get an impression of a group at a glance, and then decide which ones are best read through first, and which ones are incompatible or unsuitable from the start. I personally think it's a great idea, even if we may want to get some community consensus in here first, regarding what the format should be if we intend to adopt it as a whole.

[Firefly]

Kyle Hawkins, on 11 June 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

For someone making such demands about being able to read and decipher basic information, you clearly haven't put much time into properly understanding the OP's post and intentions.

Don't attempt to interpret or intuit what I did or did not do, because you will be sorely mistaken. I understand exactly what he's asking. I'm not going to translate his post to prove it for you by making "OZY's Post For Dummies". I know what he meant and what his intent was. And my statement stands. If you can't figure out what a merc unit is looking for within the first two minutes of looking at a thread, be it six words or six paragraphs, then -- and again, speaking ONLY for MY merc unit, which is all I really give a **** about -- you don't need to be in my merc unit. If you can't deal with that fact, don't ******* apply.

There are one of two expectations, in the end, for each merc unit: serious, or casual. I can go through the first six pages in this forum, ready every single thread on those pages, and determine whether or not I as a merc in search of a unit would join them. Furthermore, if I chose the first one I came to, I guarantee you it would take me, an average internet guy, about five minutes to get myself into their ranks.

Is that oversimplifying? Maybe if I roleplay and take stuff way too seriously. But I don't. I see things in black and white - find merc unit, join merc unit, the end. Sorry that not everyone meets your expectations of unit-hunting.

[Threat Doc]

Firefly, I'm beginning to think you posted here so you could troll. Ozy made a recommendation for something that would make life easier, and Hawkins tried to explain that to you, and what he said was written with respect. However, it's pretty obvious that your black and white doesn't belong in this thread, and you shouldn't have posted. For 99.99% of people, I would guesstimate, it's NOT black and white, and Ozy was thinking about that higher percentage, and attempting to make things better for them. He didn't say, or even imply, anything about idiots, slow people, or the diligence-lacking, he was proposing a system by which a potential recruit's life could be made easier. Therefore, your posts are nothing more than argumentative hog-wash, trolling.

Indeed, the fact that you have posted here, "...if you need a TL/DR version for something which amounts to two or three paragraphs...

... then you (again, generally speaking) aren't welcome in my merc unit. I need capable, INTELLIGENT warriors. I don't need idiots who are no good at anything besides being cannon fodder" brings to mind the idea that you are, indeed, setting yourself up for failure for getting just those sorts of recruits. As a leader, you (and, I mean 'you' in general, not specifically YOU, Firefly...BS) might want to consider taking a bit more gentle hand, be a bit more respectful of people who are trying to help in the community, or otherwise get back to your own corner and shut your pie-hole, boy, while real leaders get your recruits.

You didn't even need to post here, and if you post back with the same disrespectful crap you posted to Ozy and Kyle Hawkins, above, I will report your posts in this thread.

Good day, Firefly.

[Psycho Tick]

Right. I don't know about you guys, but it was the well written two or three paragraphs that inspired me to sign up.

If Firefly had just run it down to a couple bullet points, it would have been little more than just another group that wants people to join. It's the knowledge behind the company that really intrigues me, not whether or not this group was established before or for this game. This is a joke system. This system would take the uniqueness out of any company, why would I want that? Why would anyone want that? It looks the difference between putting effort into your recruitment attempt and being lazy. **** a system, be original.

[Firefly]

Mao Sing, on 11 June 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

I would just be happy if most recruiting Merc Corps would list either

1: when the majority of their players play. (if they play during the day and I play at night or I play at night and they usually play at "late night", then I would never get to play with them)

or
2: what time zone most of their players are in.

A lot of the Merc recruiting pages aren't listing this, and to be honest, the game is still so young, that they might not know. But in my opinion it doesn't do a recruit any good to join a Merc corp if say thTey are on the west coast and the majority of the Corp is on the east coast.

This thread had something of value for me. This is a good suggestion. Thanks, I will implement this in my own recruitment thread.

Kay Wolf, on 11 June 2012 - 10:57 AM, said:

You didn't even need to post here, and if you post back with the same disrespectful crap you posted to Ozy and Kyle Hawkins, above, I will report your posts in this thread.

OH NO, anyone who disagrees must be a troll! Last time I checked, my account is in good standing, I'm logged in, there's a "reply" button, and we live in the United States of Free-internetia. Go ahead, report me for having a conversation. I'm not sure what their forum CS policy is but hopefully there's an abuse-of-the-appeal-system clause.

I think you replied just to be condescending, but whatever. I hoped to avoid a flame war, and I'm just gonna stick to my guns. If you want to engage, go ahead. You clearly don't get what I'm saying, but I'm not really in the mood to explain it in small words with few letters and one or two syllables only. Bottom line is, merc units don't NEED a silly five-line format. Suggesting a dumbed-down version for people who can't be bothered to read more than five lines may have been decent for the Hiring Hall thread, and that I fully support as it makes my job a lot easier (lulz, "real leader"... GTFO, kid, I have more time leading troops in combat that you have on the internet). For a merc unit that wants to recruit top-notch people with an attention span and a commitment to learning all they can before applying? No thanks.

You run your merc unit however you want. Kindly refrain from telling the rest of us what we should and shouldn't do. I say, any merc unit that wants to write ten parapraphs of fluff should go right ahead. I may not sign up, but I'll sure read it to pass the time. Frankly, a unit that only puts six lines of About Us in a template format isn't worth the time to a lot of people.

THAT is my point. Not that you or anyone else is somehow mentally deficient for not being able to find the key points in three paragraphs. If you interpret it that way, that's entirely on you.

Have a nice day.
-- ff/bwc

Edited by Firefly, 11 June 2012 - 11:59 AM.

[Threat Doc]

Psycho Tick, if this system were combined with the few paragraphs, it would be best used, then, wouldn't you agree? People have the basics laid out for them with the "bullet point" system, and then further with paragraphs. What would be the harm in that? And, Ozy was NOT suggesting to only have the "bullet points", just that it would be a way to help people get through some basic information quickly, and then into the meat.

Firefly, on 11 June 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

OH NO, anyone who disagrees must be a troll! Last time I checked, my account is in good standing, I'm logged in, there's a "reply" button, and we live in the United States of Free-internetia. Go ahead, report me for having a conversation. I'm not sure what their forum CS policy is but hopefully there's an abuse-of-the-appeal-system clause.

It's not WHAT you said, it's HOW you said it; you have no respect, no courtesy, and only ignorance to spew out of your fingertips.

Quote

I think you replied just to be condescending, but whatever. I hoped to avoid a flame war, and I'm just gonna stick to my guns.

If you had hoped to avoid a flame war, perhaps you could have been more respectful in what you said. You weren't trying to avoid anything. Have you actually read your previous posts? You were head hunting, you were asking for trouble.

Quote

If you want to engage, go ahead. You clearly don't get what I'm saying,

When you're being a condescending *****, I'm not interested in understanding what you're saying, because it's all condescension, do you understand?

Quote

Bottom line is, merc units don't NEED a silly five-line format.

It's only silly because you don't know how to use it; for many others, it would be a boon.

Quote

Suggesting a dumbed-down version for people who can't be bothered to read more than five lines may have been decent for the Hiring Hall thread, and that I fully support as it makes my job a lot easier (lulz, "real leader"... GTFO, kid, I have more time leading troops in combat that you have on the internet). For a merc unit that wants to recruit top-notch people with an attention span and a commitment to learning all they can before applying? No thanks.

It's not dumbed-down, it's factual, something I'm absolutely certain you can't understand. Before you go making assumptions about where I've been or what I've done, you'd better put a check on yourself, first. Your statements are contradictory, then... either you want intelligent people who are capable of thinking freely, and hence will try to find out all they can about a unit before joining it, or you don't; which one is it? You just want someone to follow you because you put up a paragraph or three, with no real technical details? That's pretty arrogant, there, Firefly, and not at all realistic. Those who follow you more or less blindly are not the type of people you've professed to desire having in your unit; so, which one is it?

Quote

You run your merc unit however you want. Kindly refrain from telling the rest of us what we should and shouldn't do.

Ozy wasn't trying to do anything of the sort, nor am I; however, re-read what you've written, with some modicum of sanity and common sense, in mind, and you'll find that you, indeed, are trying to do just that.

Quote

I say, any merc unit that wants to write ten parapraphs of fluff should go right ahead. I may not sign up, but I'll sure read it to pass the time. Frankly, a unit that only puts six lines of About Us in a template format isn't worth the time to a lot of people.

Ozy didn't say anything about eliminating the paragraphs of text, if you'll read, he's just saying there should be the additional information so others can make the decision. However, since you couldn't be bothered to read that he made no such suggestion for removing the paragraphs, simply placing the "bullet points" at the top, please feel free to go back and read it, again?

Quote

THAT is my point. Not that you or anyone else is somehow mentally deficient for not being able to find the key points in three paragraphs. If you interpret it that way, that's entirely on you.

I didn't interpret it that way, but apparently you did, based on your condescending tone and word choices, and now the fact that you're addressing it, here. HOW you state things is far more important than WHAT you say and, if you've lead people in combat before, then you know when dealing with higher NCOs and Officers, you HAVE to be tactful; why not try to use that tact here, as well, please? Stop being condescending, because you get more flies with honey.

Edited by Kay Wolf, 11 June 2012 - 12:24 PM.

[Firefly]

Reported for trolling and flaming!

[Threat Doc]

Ditto, Firefly. It would be awfully nice to not have to deal with guys who can't seem to talk to anyone without treating them like garbage.

[Firefly]

Dude, I gave you the jerk response because I told you in my last post I didn't want to get into a flame war. Since you came off all condescending, trying to tell people where they can and cannot posts, I signaled that I was done with you and this conversation. Or as you put it, "treated like garbage".Rather than engage you personally, I elected to walk away. YOU'RE STILL AT IT. I have no reply to anything you wrote because frankly, I didn't read your wall of text past the second line-by-line breakdown of my post. At that point I rolled my eyes at the sheer amount of butthurt you exude with every post you make to me and went to go read the Goonswarm thread.

You insulted me personally, accused me of treating you badly, accused me of being condescending, shed an unmanly amount of e-tears, etc. And this is all coming from a dude who made it his personal mission to go into multiple merc unit threads and lecture them about the dangers of canon unit names, if I recall correctly. Lemme know how that reporting-for-trolling thing works out for you. You're still here.

[Threat Doc]

No, you don't recall correctly. I have explained about the Canon unit names twice, two weeks apart. Everything you applied to me, since you can't be bothered to read -how can you want intelligent people in your unit when you're not willing to speak and act as such?- you really need to look at in yourself. You have been reported, and I have been reported, and now we're waiting to see what comes of it. Oh, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have written a third or fourth sentence, because you can't be bothered to read it. Good day.

[Kyle Hawkins]

Well this has gone south quickly. But hopefully without getting drawn into anymore fighting, I will reply with a clarification about Psycho's comment.

Psycho Tick, on 11 June 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

Right. I don't know about you guys, but it was the well written two or three paragraphs that inspired me to sign up.

If Firefly had just run it down to a couple bullet points, it would have been little more than just another group that wants people to join. It's the knowledge behind the company that really intrigues me, not whether or not this group was established before or for this game. This is a joke system. This system would take the uniqueness out of any company, why would I want that? Why would anyone want that? It looks the difference between putting effort into your recruitment attempt and being lazy. **** a system, be original.

The whole point of this bullet point or quick reference format is to provide an at a glance basic view of a merc company, it wasn't at all meant or suggested to replace the full proper intro/company bio. That indeed would be a joke. The idea is a small 7 to 10 line tag to be included somewhere alongside the intro/recruitment post.

I fully agree with you that the extra detail and character behind a company is probably the most important thing, but with so many out there, expecting every recruit to read the entirety of all the merc groups full details is both unreasonable and unrealistic. Ozy's suggestion isn't about laziness, it's about being thorough and wanting to be certain he's found a group that suits, rather than declaring allegiances on a whim.