37 replies to this topic

[Pastor Priest]

I've been considering Dragons for awhile, and with the Flame/Fang sale, I am thinking about picking up a Flame. How do you like your Dragons? I have mostly played HBKs, though picked up a TBT a few weeks ago, so I have an idea how they run. I think I will use the typical gauss build. At the least, the standard 300 could work well in my CTF2X.

If I don't pick one up in this sale, I will hope for the IL to go on sale, hopefully next week.

[Stingz]

it's literally a heavy class Centurion, can pack a bigger gun but needs an XL engine to really benefit.

[Tremendous Upside]

Stingz, on 23 March 2013 - 04:59 AM, said:

it's literally a heavy class Centurion, can pack a bigger gun but needs an XL engine to really benefit.

That's a good analogy - but I'd take it one step further. If anything, I think the Flame is "most" similar to the TBT-5J without jump jets. The missile hardpoints match up, and the only real differences boil down to the DRG having a ballistic hardpoint instead of an extra energy-based one as well as 10 extra tons to work with.

[Samophlange]

I enjoy running a mech that most others on the battlefield don't quite know how to handle. In the past few games in particular, I've been almost ignored. Then I put out 500-700 damage a match. Go figure.
But, when it goes bad, it goes really bad. That center torso is way too easy to clobber.

An XL, Double HS and ES are installed in all my Dragons. With the odd hardpoints, you won't run out of room, and the larger engine covers all your heat needs with some small exceptions.

I rarely run a Gauss in them though. The ballistics have been secondary, and the Laser/PPCs have been the heavy hitters. With the constant moving, its nice to have a main weapons system that doesn't require leading your aim.

I don't have either of the hero versions, but I think I'd grab the one with the lasers in the arms. Pew-pew!

[CheeseThief]

I love Dragons and the 1C is my best scoring mech by quite a margin.

It is very much a heavy medium but the guilt free XL engine lets you go fast and pack a punch without skimping on armour, but the hitbox layout means your forced into an escort or skirmishing role. Similar in size and weapons to the Centurion but a little fatter and with a huge central torso that needs protecting, hardpoints enforce a balanced loadout and the arms are in a position to serve as a functional shield when needed.


The Flame is the better of the two hero mechs since it can get a few unique and effective loadouts, like quad arm mounted large lasers at 100kmph or 4 mediums and an AC20 while still going 90. The Fang on the other hand you can't do anything with it that you couldn't do with a 1C or 1N.

Edited by CheeseThief, 23 March 2013 - 05:51 AM.

[NRP]

I've got both the Flame and the Fang. Honestly, I really like both of them. I've never really been swayed by the "but you can make the same build on other Dragons" argument. Who cares? They look cool and they've got the hero C-Bill bonus.

[Denolven]

I'm driving the 1N for quite some time now. And I love it. Not easy to play, but versatile.
Currently I run in bit**slap mode: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a27b23efd971698

[Kunaizel]

It's only slightly above a Centurion in terms of firepower, but that's because Dragons always carry big engines to take advantage of their speedy(ish) chassis, since they also need speed to draw fire away from their fat CT.

To compare it to a Centurion gameplay wise is quite different, you move faster than Centurion, have stronger dual arm weaponry, and have a much more unfortunate CT (while the Centurion's CT is notoriously difficult to target).

[Stingz]

Kunaizel, on 23 March 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

To compare it to a Centurion gameplay wise is quite different, you move faster than Centurion

About the same speed as a Centurion after engine buffs, though the -A/-D might need XLs to really have enough firepower.

[Grey Rabbit]

I love-love-LOVE my DRGs, especially my N1. An UAC/5 to tear into distracted assaults, 2 medium pulse lasers, and 2 SSRM2s for non ECM lights trying to base cap.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...861d67a097b2d4a

One thing to keep in mind is that driving a Dragon is your mind set has to be totally different from most other mechs or you'll punch your monitor out of anger. You can't straight up brawl like in your HBK. Versatility is where it's at. Your job is to distract the enemy so your friends can crest the hill. You're the guy running back to base to stop/stall the enemy from capping. When those Atlases are squaring off, you're the extra firepower to make sure the enemy goes down first. .. And then you're off again to your next job.

[Ravennus]

I just got the Flame, because I've always really liked the hardpoint layout and I promised myself I'd buy it if there was ever a good sale.

It's also my first Heavy mech.
I'm most successful in a fast skirmisher role, and I really learned the game on my mastered Hunchbacks, so it seems I've already trained myself how best to pilot a Dragon.

So far I've had GREAT success in my new Flame, and without all the skills unlocked yet.
I've tried both the 4 LLAS build and 4 MLAS/Gauss/SRM4 build, and have topped the scoreboards with both.
(though I'm finding I like the versatility and heat efficiency of the Guass build)

XL300 in both, which I got from my Treb-3C, and even at 81 kph it does it's job and still allows for a good payload.

I heard time and time again that Dragons are squishy, especially up close, due to the large CT.
Certainly in my other mechs, there were few Dragons that I really feared... but I think that there just aren't a lot of good Dragon players out there.

With an XL.... and only going 80kph... I have survived WAY longer than I expected.
I think it's partially because I'm still in my medium mech mindset, and also that spending a LOT of time in my Hunchbacks has trained me in the art of intelligent torso twisting to distribute damage and protect my vulnerable areas.

Every match where I've died in my Dragon has been to the CT, but only after 1 or both of my arms were blown off because I was using them as shields.
I've yet to die from a side torso explosion, or have the Gauss explode on me. Those side torsos are protected pretty well.


I'm looking forward to getting the IC, as I have a nifty longe range 2x ERPPC 2x MLAS 20DHS build I want to try out.
The 1N and 5N look subpar though, and I'm still trying to figure out ideal loadouts (and which of those two that I'm going to buy for my 3rd variant).

[TarkaTarquol]

I've got the Flame and 1C, and I love both of 'em. My 1C is my long-range PPC sniper and my Flame is my "Burn your tails off" 4 Large Laser build.

I'm undecided between the 1N and 5N, but I'm leaning more towards the 1N, if only because it is nicely balanced in hardpoints and a few builds with the 1N I've seen have been pretty good. Plus I don't like multiple Ballistic in one arm (the 1N is the lesser of two evils. :3)

[gun cat]

I do love my Dragons so. They aren't terribly popular in comparison to the other heavies, but can still be a reasonable threat.

DRG-1N. My pride and joy. Terribly fun to run around in. Used to run a 1C with a Gauss and 4 Mlas and and XL360, which was also quite effective. It's less viable nowadays with Gauss being so fragile, I would imagine. You could easily translate that to the Fang or the Flame.

Edited by gun cat, 24 March 2013 - 10:07 PM.

[John MatriX82]

Dragons play as big mediums, but I find them unfortunately much less useful and fun to play since the missile nerf. Especially my DRG-1N with dual SRM4 has suffered a lot, while 1c (usual 4ML, GR + SRM6 is still effective, albeit a bit crippled).

Now that srms has been nerfed so much, it's more convenient to rely on mechs with heavy ballistics and energy hardpoints (CTF 1X, hbk 4P, Atlas RS and so on).

[Kmieciu]

I wonder what build does Mister Blastman use? He won the latest PUG-tournament. Probably something very fast with TAG...

How about Gauss + 2 LL ? Gauss+2xERPPC feels to hot and heavy. Gauss+ PPC + LL ? Gauss+ 2xERLL ?

Edited by Kmieciu, 25 March 2013 - 04:31 AM.

[Grayseven]

Dragons are horribly misunderstood mechs.

Dragons fit the bill of "Jack of all trades, master of none", but when used properly they are a very dangerous mech.

The first mistake many Dragon pilots make is to put in a smaller engine in order to maximize firepower weight. A Dragon that is no faster than other, heavier heavy mechs is missing out on its single strongest point. The speed of a Dragon allows it to bring support from one area of engagement to the next, often tipping the balance. It also allows flanking maneuvers, pulling pressure off of pinned down team mates as enemy mechs have to reposition to deal with a new threat from a different avenue.

The center torso missile hard point(s) severely limit LRM options, but a single LRM10 and 1 ton of ammo is useful when harassing enemy mechs or softening up light mechs which often fail to use AMS to save weight. A single SRM6 (or a pair of SRM4's in the DRG-1N) add some close in punch.

Dragon builds scream for DHS and Endo-steel structure and you'll be thankful to pay the price for the upgrades as 10 engine DHS's are often all you need to keep the mech cool. The 3 tons of weight savings for the endo structure can be used for increased armor or a weapons system upgrade.

Unfortunately, XL engines are often mandatory in order to pack enough firepower to make a difference, which means you can't skimp on torso armor. And since weapon hard points are most often concentrated in the arms they too must be up armored if you want to stay in the fight. FF armor is pretty much contraindicated if you want to have enough room for heavy ballistics but you might be able to pull it off with an energy heavy build if you are good at heat management. Otherwise, best to save that space for additional heat sinks.

My favorite builds often include a Gauss gun and large lasers coupled with an Advanced Zoom module to allow sniping with the Gauss. With practice you can keep the majority of your mech in cover while still giving your Gauss arm clearance to fire. Team builds often include a TAG in the mix since the speed of the Dragon lets it get into a position to mark targets for LRM users.

Dragons work best in concert with other mechs but is also fast enough to keep lighter mechs on their toes. The perceived weakness of the chassis often means you'll be ignored in a furball as the enemy targets "more dangerous" mechs, allowing you free reign to maneuver for back shots on slower heavies and assaults.

While everything a Dragon does can individually be done better with another mech, no mech combines the speed, firepower mix and survivability of a Dragon. It take a bit of practice to understand the strengths and weaknesses of the chassis, but once you do you can rack up some nice numbers.

[Mavairo]

Pastor Priest, on 23 March 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

I've been considering Dragons for awhile, and with the Flame/Fang sale, I am thinking about picking up a Flame. How do you like your Dragons? I have mostly played HBKs, though picked up a TBT a few weeks ago, so I have an idea how they run. I think I will use the typical gauss build. At the least, the standard 300 could work well in my CTF2X.

If I don't pick one up in this sale, I will hope for the IL to go on sale, hopefully next week.

I'm big on the Fang, unless I'm using an AC20 in the Flame.
2 LLs XL320, AC10 was alot of fun.
Currently I'm tweaking the load out (I have similar weaponry on other dragon setups).

SRM6, AC5, 2 LLs with the same engine is another fave of mine.

I might try a twin AC2 setup at some point just to see what that's like.

The Dragon is a calvary mech. You can build it to be long arm, short arm, or medium arm (my preference) in terms of distance but you should always be focusing hard on armor and speed. Particularly speed, if you end up having to choose between a few points of armor or the bigger engine, get the bigger engine.

Arms should always be at 40, the CT should be at least 60 on the front. STs I also keep high since I like to twist about while I bob and weave through combat to spread the damage around.

Legs are also really important since it's speed oriented.

Always stay moving unless you know you're going to utterly decimate your opponents anyway and even then stay mobile, stay active. It's good practice.

The -absolute- slowest I recommend for a Dragon is 85 kph after speed tweak. Anything lower than that (and you better be carrying an AC20 on that bad boy for that kind of ''slow'' speed) and you're just asking for trouble.

Edited by Mavairo, 25 March 2013 - 08:16 AM.

[ExplodedZombie]

Yes. Yes. Yes. I have always loved my Flame for fast skirmishing. I've been a little disappointed with my Fang, however, because I couldn't find a fit that the Flame couldn't do better. Ok, maybe I wasn't trying. Until yesterday. XL 325 is a must on both, btw. Full upgrades. Fang now rocks:

2 ML in left arm
1 AC/10 in right arm
1 ERPPC in left shoulder

Hide, shoot, run around and freak out the enemy, support your assaults and other heavies. I still do better in the brawler role, but I had a blast with the Fang.

[fyrebryan]

Shotty FLAME ends up being a decent brawler

PPC/LL FLAME is pretty good at both brawling and distance fire

Gauss FLAME is again pretty good at brawling and distance fire

Still sad that xl engine means no ac/20 cause that was just a huge amount of dmg there. AC20 FLAME is still fairly fast, but ac/20 allows for easy kill steals and is great for finishing off mechs

Edited by fyrebryan, 25 March 2013 - 09:08 AM.

[Zen Hachetaki]

I love my Dragons... I am also a sucker for punishment. Ultimately you have to use weapons you are good with - this chassis is not forgiving. Rules of thumb IMO:
*Never less than an XL 300 or why bother
*Your LT energy point is *AWESOME* (on Flame is become an AC); it is super high mounted that can shoot over hills and allow virtually no return fire
*Twist A LOT; your CT is easy to target, but spread it to your arms and mini side torsos by torso twisting
*Never have a "fair fight"; be bigger than anything you face 1 to 1, otherwise run away (take lots of back armor) and come at them from a different angle
*NEVER come at ANYTHING straight on; your CT is a hit magnet

Everyone has preferences on what they hit with best and builds, sample of mine are below:

1C: 300 XL, 4 LL, SRM6 (top performer by a long shot for a long time)
5N: 350 KL, 2 ER PPC, 3 MG, 1 SSRM2 (most fun by far - hunt base cappers and ECM)
1N: 300 XL, 2 LL, 2 AC2, 2 SRM4 (frustrating build, feels like I should be doing way more damage... mostly sniper build; hit and fade)

As posters above said - KNOW your role; you are not a brawler in any configuration. That does not mean you are not effectiv, but you cannot run straight into the fray and expect to emerge - CT is just too big.

I am attracted to the Flame but have not purchased it yet - trying to save my MC in case they bring other stuff I cannot resist (Hatamoto Chi or Charger), and for mech hangar slots ofc. Have fun with it and be patient.