40 replies to this topic

[Peiper]

I've been wondering, since the release of Snord's Heavy Metal Highlander if they are breaking the mold of the Highlander. For your reference I submit Sarna's description of the various Highlanders. I have looked everywhere for details on Snord's Highlander, but cannot find the exact model or details of how her particular Highlander was armed.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Highlander

The Heavy Metal is bugging me. Unlike ANY of the Highlanders out, it has it's lasers in the left arm and not in the right torso. This bugs me on two levels. One is because I have no reason to believe that other than the speakers, her Highlander is an HGN-732 model. Why, other than the c-bill boost and speakers be any different than any other HGN-732 model? (Yeah, yeah, to make it an unique variant, but that is unnecessary. Identical or not, they could call it a separate variant for experience sake the same way that two of the Stalkers are identical save for the extra AMS slot. After frankenmeching them, they are identical anyway...)

I must say that I LIKE the fact they moved the lasers over to the arms, because it makes the lasers so very much more effective than if they were stuck in the chest.

HOWEVER, this leads me to my second and MUCH more important worry.

What if the Heavy Metal is the ONLY Highlander they made this change to? That would mean that Snords Highlander was MUCH, MUCH better than the other variants. Anyone who has remembered to unlock their arms from their torsos knows that the ability to aim your lasers and track targets beyond the torso movement limitations makes those lasers twice as effective.

So, will the rest of the Highlanders be canon, or are they all similarly altered. If not: we have a clear situation where the HERO mech is MUCH, MUCH better than the other variants which means PGI is going against its previously stated policies and promises to keep the HERO mechs equal alternatives to the canon variants.

As an Atlas RS pilot, I would venture to say that it is the best of the Atlas variants, save the D-DC, which is only better because of the ability to mount an area cloaking device (aka ECM aka FUBAR). If the RS was only available as a hero mech, then people would be screaming on how unfair it was that the HERO variant was so much better than the other variants, as it IS that much better.

So, can someone 'in the know' answer the question posed above: are the upcoming Highlanders going to break from canon in their hardpoints/loadouts similarly to the Heavy Metal mech - or - are they going to remain as they are canon and thus INFERIOR to the Heavy Metal?

(And just in case they are going to remain canon (lasers in the right torso), are we going to be able to purchase a non-hero clone of the Heavy Metal? This would be the only fair way to deal with the problem if PGI has overlooked the fact that Snord's Highlander as it is is FAR superior to the other Highlanders expected to be released.)

The following image has scared me. I really don't want PGI to be accused of breaking another promise (real or perceived). Below is the Highlander from the in-game files, if I understand correctly. Note the placement of the lasers in the right torso, which is cannon for ALL of the currently (3050 era) Highlanders, including Rhonda Snord's, unless I am mistaken. Credit: Adridos

Edited by Peiper, 06 April 2013 - 12:46 AM.

[Hador]

In about 10 days we will know.

[GODzillaGSPB]

It happened before. Look at the Dragon 1C. It's the only Dragon that can effectively carry 4x ML + a ballistic + missiles into battle. I drive it that way and it's great. BUT...the heromech Flame is eben better! I can drive it with the very same configuration, but it has all 4 lasers in the arms. I have no conversion-problems with the 4 lasers and can put them in one weapon group while in my 1C I have to work with 4 weapon groups - 2 lasers in arm, 2 lasers in torso, ballistic, missile. And the Flame is the only of all Dragon variants that has lasers in it's right arm.

Do I feel bad about it? Not really. My 1C works good enough. And so will the normal Highlanders with the lasers in the torso.

[One Medic Army]

I'm going to say the other highlanders will be more popular.
Why? Because they'll mount PPCs better and poptart better.

The main reason I bought the Heavy Metal is because I prefer torso missiles and arm lasers, I'm not expecting the others to break from cannon.

All the rest will have their own unique utility.
733C is able to mount a AC/20, the first mech above 65 tons that can do so with an XL engine.
733P has it's right arm as an energy arm, and it still has the Rtorso with MLs. I predict this will be the favored jump-sniper variant.
732 and 733 have the same minimum hardpoints, however they'll probably receive extras. Extra energy (and missile, when those are de-nerfed) hardpoints will make them favorable to some people, and they'll probably see use in long-range gauss+PPC builds.

Edited by One Medic Army, 06 April 2013 - 01:09 AM.

[Chavette]

One Medic Army, on 06 April 2013 - 01:09 AM, said:

733P has it's right arm as an energy arm, and it still has the Rtorso with MLs. I predict this will be the favored jump-sniper variant.

What if it cant jump? Not all cats, trebs can jump either.

[Tragos]

http://www.sarna.net..._Highlander.jpg This is why they designed it this way. And probably stuff in the books.

[One Medic Army]

Chavette, on 06 April 2013 - 01:11 AM, said:

What if it cant jump? Not all cats, trebs can jump either.

All highlanders come stock with 3 Jets.
They will all be able to mount minimum of 3 jumpjets.

It remains to be seen if they will be able to mount more though.

[Norris J Packard]

So let me get this straight. Not being able to aim your missiles is fine. But being able to aim your lasers is OP. I am going to take a moment to point out here that three ML's provides 15 damage over 1s and generates 12 heat. Meanwhile a single SRM-6 in the fist is 9 damage and 4 heat. And hopefully, it'll be bumped back up to 15 damage soon. Now why in the world does this make lasers in the fist as opposed to missiles suddenly make the Heavy Metal better? Don't misunderstand me, it allows you to do different things, but it in no way makes the Heavy Metal better. I could say the exact opposite if I wanted to, I could say that because the Heavy Metal cannot aim missiles with the accuracy that the other variants allow, it is actually the worst one. See what I'm getting at here?

AlexEss, on 06 April 2013 - 01:28 AM, said:

actually if you look at the only image of the mech in question you will see it has not lasers in the chest (and then you can argue all day what the arm shown is supposed to be...) and as far as i know the only time it is mentioned it is given the loadout it has now (it was in a book i think..)

So i think it is pretty much in line with what have been done before. (see "the people vs Yen-Lo-Wang")

What're you talking about? They all have lasers in the right side-torso. Literally every single variant we are going to get does.

And by god do I hope that the JJ shake and convergence changes I've been told about come out in the next patch. Otherwise, lol. You're going to see tons of 4 PPC/ER-PPC Highlanders pop up. You think it is bad enough with the Stalker? You have no godly idea what is about to be put into this game.

[Seleucus Ontuas]

I think you'll have a hard time convincing people that simply because the lasers are located in a seperate location than another variant, that makes variant A, or in this case the hero variant, simply better. The fact of the matter is, playstyles between people differ and thus some people value weapons on different locations more than others.

For example, I like lasers in the arms, but I prefer to have the majority of my weapons in the torsos. You claim your favorite Atlas is the AS7-RS, well my favorite Atlas is the AS7-D. I spend the majority of my time in the D-DC for obvious reasons, but if ECM was removed, then I'd be in the -D. Why? I like the fact that I can lose my arms and side torsos and still have two medium lasers. I can understand why people like the RS, but it's extremely easy to lose an arm on an Atlas. In most situations in my D-DC, I finish a brawl with either an arm and a side torso missing, or both side torsos about to pop. In an RS, that means you're about to lose all your weapons, in a D, you still will hopefully have two Medium Lasers in the chest. With that said, even before ECM, the AS7-D-DC was considered the superior Brawler considering it had an extra SRM6. Different priorities.

I also happen to own the Flame and the 1C. I prefer the 1C. My playstyle depends heavily on torso twisting, and thus I normally never bothered with a Ballistic weapon on my Dragons; instead I had a nice big shield arm to protect my center torso. In the 1C, I could even afford to lose my other arm as I would still have over half my firepower with the side torso lasers and the SRM in the CT. That playstyle didn't translate at all into the Flame, instead losing both arms in the Flame meant that I was pretty much as good as dead, much like the AS7-D-DC.

No, the variants to be on the look out for is the one with the AC20 in the arm along with any variant that has 3 Energy hardpoints in the side torso. 3 Energy hardpoints in the side torso means 3 PPCs, which makes it a superior poptart platform than Heavy Metal considering that HM can't do more than 2 PPCs.

And even with all that said, as previously mentioned, different priorities. 3 Energy hardpoints in the arm might make it a better Fire Support poptart, but Missile hardpoints are still the best for brawling mechs. People looking to use something other than an Atlas as their frontline mech are going to be looking for the variant with the most Missile hardpoints, not the one that has Energy hardpoints in the arm.

[Norris J Packard]

Seleucus Ontuas, on 06 April 2013 - 01:35 AM, said:

No, the variants to be on the look out for is the one with the AC20 in the arm along with any variant that has 3 Energy hardpoints in the side torso. 3 Energy hardpoints in the side torso means 3 PPCs, which makes it a superior poptart platform than Heavy Metal considering that HM can't do more than 2 PPCs.

The only interesting thing about the 733C might be that they'll front load it with ballistics and missiles to counter-act the zero lower arm movement it'll be granted. I will definitely consider using it if I can cram three SRM-6's into the fist, and an AC/20 in the arm with two Machine Guns. Otherwise I am going to avoid it like the plague. Being able to use an AC/20 is nice and all, but let's be frank. The Gauss in the Highlander just doesn't get popped that often. It is far from being the priority area on the Mech, it gives much further range at nearly no heat. It isn't like stuffing one in the side-torso, that's just asking for it to crit out on ya.

[One Medic Army]

Norris J Packard, on 06 April 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

The only interesting thing about the 733C might be that they'll front load it with ballistics and missiles to counter-act the zero lower arm movement it'll be granted. I will definitely consider using it if I can cram three SRM-6's into the fist, and an AC/20 in the arm with two Machine Guns. Otherwise I am going to avoid it like the plague. Being able to use an AC/20 is nice and all, but let's be frank. The Gauss in the Highlander just doesn't get popped that often. It is far from being the priority area on the Mech, it gives much further range at nearly no heat. It isn't like stuffing one in the side-torso, that's just asking for it to crit out on ya.

It will also be able to mount 2x UAC/5s, which should be pretty popular.

[John MatriX82]

I too couldn't find Rhonda's proper config, but I think devs saw this (normal highlander):
http://www.sarna.net..._HIGHLANDER.png

And then they saw this about the HM:
http://www.sarna.net..._Highlander.jpg

True, it looks like that the RA carries lasers instead of the usual ballistic, but there's no energy hardpoints at all in the RT, therefore I guess they decided to leave them in the left arm.

I understand what the OP says, but this reminds to me the Dragon 1C vs FLAME mentioned also by GodZilla, for sure the FLAME is better (especially if you go for four LLas).
But to keep my usual configuration for the 1C (GR, 4ML, SRM6), the flame has only 5 tubes for the missiles and the GR would end up stored in a side torso that paired with XLs would mean instant death, while in the 1C you'll practically never suffer any damage transfer to the RT if the gauss goes off or it's minimal.

I don't think vanilla Highlanders will be so inferior to the HM. The HM can be disabled quickly by blowing off the LT, where you take away 80% of the damage, often spotting a nice XL engine..

[Peiper]

Interesting arguments. I'd still prefer the lasers in the arms, though the idea of 3 PPC's in one location (right torso) does seem rather scary, especially for jump-sniping. Perhaps, I am, like Paul and his FUBAR/ECM/area cloaking devices guilty of tunnel vision in my fears. I'm not a jump-sniper, and yeah, 3 SRM 6's in the right arm is kinda concerning when envisioned.

Sigh... when are they going to come out with lobbies so I can work to form a stock only league? My primitive mind looks for balance and seeks tactical challenge, but fails to think in the mold of the min/maxer, frankenmeching everything into a boat. I think I'm being clever thinking that Heavy Metal is better than torso mounted lasers because I think too conventionally. The idea of jump-sniping 3 PPC's (right torso) and Gauss just never occurred to me.

Thank you all for the input, though I don't know that any of it puts my mind at ease! lol

[OneEyed Jack]

Pretty sure they just made up the loadout for HM from whole cloth. I don't think there's anything anywhere that specifically states how it's configured, so that left it open to interpretation.

[Vagabond HT]

I think i'll like the layout of the Standard Veriants of the Highlander that the hero Hm version. Since they come standard with 3 jumpjets so thats 6tons insteade of 10tons being stolen by them. Since the HM does not have anything in its right torso Which i would calll a waste of space for HPs and just be glad you can't build the Highlander IICs with 2 SSRM6s in the arm. If a Varient has two missle hardpoints in the left arm i think i would name it judge Dredd for the famious Strip of him punching the dark judge Fear throught he helmet saying Gaze in to the fist of dredd. . Also the HNG-732 starts with FF armour with Case

Edited by vagabond The Scot, 06 April 2013 - 04:12 AM.

[SgtMagor]

yes, I would like to see a Highlander with srms and lasers in the left arm

[Ralgas]

It can and will happen as long as it can extremely affect game balance when customized. The laser hp's on this mech are going to have sucky location to prevent the next upgrade to poptarts, (ie being able to loadup a 45-55 pnt alpha, 500+ armor and be relatively cool running to boot)

Edited by Ralgas, 06 April 2013 - 04:31 AM.

[Eric darkstar Marr]

This is my answer to your question on the Highlander:
(as for breaking canon look at the Jenner for that answer.)

[Royalewithcheese]

Peiper, on 06 April 2013 - 03:01 AM, said:

frankenmeching everything

Speaking of which, a nice upside of having everything in the RT/RA is that you can rip off the left arm to save weight.

[General Taskeen]

GODzillaGSPB, on 06 April 2013 - 12:58 AM, said:

It happened before. Look at the Dragon 1C. It's the only Dragon that can effectively carry 4x ML + a ballistic + missiles into battle. I drive it that way and it's great. BUT...the heromech Flame is eben better! I can drive it with the very same configuration, but it has all 4 lasers in the arms. I have no conversion-problems with the 4 lasers and can put them in one weapon group while in my 1C I have to work with 4 weapon groups - 2 lasers in arm, 2 lasers in torso, ballistic, missile. And the Flame is the only of all Dragon variants that has lasers in it's right arm.

Do I feel bad about it? Not really. My 1C works good enough. And so will the normal Highlanders with the lasers in the torso.

However... they only add additional hardpoints types to where the weapon is. Eventually they are going to model all the hardpoints for what weapon(s) are slotted there. Some Mechs have a tough time using their given 'extra' hp's though.

And this is the only image of Rhonda's Mech from 'canon'



They may have based it off that image, or gimped it on purpose. If there is no record sheet, they simply make up the weapons.