27 replies to this topic

[Janius]

Dont know if this idea has been posted before and actually DISCUSSED, but please read all the way through before commenting....

First bring MG weight up to a full ton
Second slightly reduce fire rate from 10 shots per second to 6 shots per second
Third Bring the damage from 0.04 damage per shot to 0.4 damage per shot.
Fourth completely rework the crit seeking function. it sucks. more then the MG itself
Fifth make MG ammo only supply 500 rounds per ton

This radically changes the DPS of the MG from a MASSIVE .4 DAMAGE A SECOND to a slightly more useful 2.4 damage. Roughly putting it on DPS scaling with a SMALL LASER. And hey, both the MG itself is heavier which means less (insert equipment here) on top of needing more tonnage for ammo.

The mythical titan slayer spider that can mount 4 of these has a maximum DPS of 9.6. Now this is scattered all over the poor(HAH, i couldnt keep a straight face) target mech. Of course there is no heat limitation of firing these, but ammo just got a whole lot more scarce. Assuming its a SPR 5K with a xl 255, and max ferro armor, Endo-steel frame, having four of these MGs would leave enough ammo for 6 tons of ammo. 3 thousand rounds. at 24 rounds per second. or about 2 minutes of continuous fire. Now that is still ALOT of damage. BUT it is not pinpoint. nor is it very long ranged. Its is good for high speed run in get some hits in, and MOVE.

Im sure the next part of the argument against this is if that spider gets behind an assault, then its GG for the assault. Im not even going to argue that. thats a inherent problem with assaults. Once a lights gets in position behind one, most lights win in my experience. That said i have done that in a Jenner, before and After lagshields, as well as been in the receiving end in both Atlas and Stalker. However, there is a hard counter to such things, one that gets overlooked FAR to much in my opinion. TEAMWORK FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY IN THIS WORLD. An enemy mech will not be able to park behind a fatlas(i pilot one, i can say that so stop whining) and pour MG rounds into it for the solid 30 seconds it would require to kill it like that, IF the atlas has a buddy with him.

Rant is almost over. If this is still to powerfull, wich is arguable, maybe drop the MG damage could change to 0.2 or 0.1. A 4 MG spider would have 4.8 DPS and 2.4 DPS respectivly like that.

No matter what gets changed for MGs, it requires a change to almost all stats for it to be effective here. TT rules have their role. Its called advice.

Edited by Janius, 12 April 2013 - 10:25 PM.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

leave my MG as is!

[xenoglyph]

Awesome, a machine gun thread! Oh how I've missed thee

[Vassago Rain]

Anti-infantry support weapon.

Watch these guaranteed replies.

[jeffsw6]

You're suggesting 6 shots/sec at 0.4 dmg/shot or 2.4 DPS, with no heat production, in a 1 ton, 1 slot weapon? This 400% buff would make the Machine Gun pretty over-powered. Granted its range is only 90m but ... I think your suggested figures are a bit too aggressive.

If the MG generated some heat, it could be buffed to where it is similar in power to the Small Laser. IMO it should make some heat but less than SL because it is consuming ammunition. If an MG had 1 DPS and 2 dmg/heat that might be a good place to start. That basically makes it a really small AC/2.

The real problem is the SDR-5K and the similar CDA need different hard-points. The CDA doesn't matter so much because there are 4 CDA variants plus a Hero; so no one is being forced to play it. But people are made to play the SDR-5K so they can master Spiders.

Anyway, we've read that the devs do not look at specific suggestions; but trends. They are not interested in our figures. There may be little value in discussing where we think its damage figures should end up.

[Janius]

As far as the 1 ton, 1 slot, 2.4 damage, no heat, i did look at that, a bit. hence later in the post i suggest dropping the damage to half or to quarter. But before dropping that, some attention should be applied to the fact that MGs do not do precision damage. Unless your within, what 10 meters? a MG scatters all over the mech, Even if your standing still. ive tried a 6 MG jager for a bit, before i turned it into scrap. even at 50 meters under the current thing i was hitting 2 or 3 hitboxes on an atlas. The lack of precision really makes a difference on the DPS.

As far as the devs not looking at this stuff, i can hope cant i? they might look from time to time. Part of the reason they stopped paying attention to us in the threads might have to do with all the 'YOU GUYS SUCK AT MAKING GAMES' style bitching ive seen over the last 3 or so months.

[Juree Riggd]

Bryan Ekman, on 08 April 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

Ask the Devs #35

CCQ 3: Why is Machine Gun damage so low?
A: Partly due to the nature of how MGs work in the TT rules, partially due to how we chose to make it useful. When equipping a MG, keep in mind that it is not meant to burn through armor but is very useful for tearing up internals (crits). Bumping MG damage will turn it into a laser that can be kept on with no heat penalty until it runs out of ammo. Now imagine the devastating effect that a 6 MG spider could do to the back of an Atlas! We are still investigating balance of the MG but don’t expect any significant increase in damage.

[Fishbulb333]

Really hope they release that 6 ballistic spider as champion mech, lot of mg threads now? Let's see what happens when people pay MC for it

If it's not gonna be the champ, I'd like to know exactly which game the devs are playing, seeing as A - there is no 6 mg spider, and B - mg's are not even vaguely useful atm, except for troll/fun builds + the nice sound effect.

[tenderloving]

Why do we still argue about this? "They are fine" won and the massive amounts of empirical evidence supporting "They are not fine" lost. It's over.

[shintakie]

jeffsw6, on 13 April 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

You're suggesting 6 shots/sec at 0.4 dmg/shot or 2.4 DPS, with no heat production, in a 1 ton, 1 slot weapon? This 400% buff would make the Machine Gun pretty over-powered. Granted its range is only 90m but ... I think your suggested figures are a bit too aggressive.

If the MG generated some heat, it could be buffed to where it is similar in power to the Small Laser. IMO it should make some heat but less than SL because it is consuming ammunition. If an MG had 1 DPS and 2 dmg/heat that might be a good place to start. That basically makes it a really small AC/2.

The real problem is the SDR-5K and the similar CDA need different hard-points. The CDA doesn't matter so much because there are 4 CDA variants plus a Hero; so no one is being forced to play it. But people are made to play the SDR-5K so they can master Spiders.

Anyway, we've read that the devs do not look at specific suggestions; but trends. They are not interested in our figures. There may be little value in discussing where we think its damage figures should end up.

Yeah, they're all into trends. Which is why they locked every MG thread ever and shuffled them off into a different place. Where you ask? Possibly Hot Topic Heatsink which is at least still in the general discussion forums where the ECM thread went? Nope, Game Balance forums. I bet most people don't even know that a Game Balance forum exists.

PGI is perfectly fine with the CDA-3C, SDR-5K, RVN-4X, and the upcomin Flea variant with ballistics to be completely and 100% useless unless they pretend their ballistic slots don't exist.

[N0ni]

Fishbulb333, on 13 April 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

I'd like to know exactly which game the devs are playing

This game, 1 month ahead of what the public gets.

[neviu]

mg hmmmm,
where have i seen this before?

[Fishbulb333]

Dead Eye 01, on 13 April 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

This game, 1 month ahead of what the public gets.

They've stated they're fine with machineguns atm and have no plans to improve them or change crit-seeking, nor actually add this fictional 6 ballistic spider, somehow this future build you imagine them playing (with no improvements to mg's) has led them to believe mg's are totally fine....o...k...

[Critical Fumble]

Juree Riggd, on 13 April 2013 - 06:47 AM, said:

Insert oft quoted BE statement about how dangerous MGs "could" be

Funny story, I once melted down an Atlas from the rear using MLs. Once. Because he was the only pilot I have ever seen who, when being shot in the rear with no other targets around, would not try to get his guns on me AT ALL.

[PappySmurf]

OMG not another MG topic sigh. I used 4 MG on a jager last night as I was getting bloown to hhellll by everyone im sure they were laughing there asssss off at my 4 machine guns until they noticed I just killed them with my 4 ER large lasers. hahahahaha then I overheated and died anyways.

[3rdworld]

Dead Eye 01, on 13 April 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

This game, 1 month ahead of what the public gets.

That makes the entire game, much more pathetic.

[l4Dl]

Good ideas OP, but, i feel the MG can be a simple fix by making them essentially a close range laser variant.

The current way the MG plays is brilliant, travel time is slow, but, it should pack a punch whilst being limited to short ranges.
I feel the MG should be feared at close range.

By creating 3 variants, similar to laser pool, it opens up new gameplay mechanics similar to a slow ballistic (predict target location, for those who played Quake3 on a 56kmodem, you'll know what i mean):

- Small MG
The current one @ 1.2 dps, 90m range max.

- Medium MG
1 ton, slower refire rate, @ 1.6 dps, 150m range max.

- Large MG
5 ton, slowest refire rate, @ 2.6 dps, 270m range max.


Or, you could copy Tribes ascend projectiles, give them a long range and slow travel time. Give some skilled players a weapon that plays differently to point/click.

Edited by l4Dl, 13 April 2013 - 07:19 AM.

[TungstenWall]

Vassago Rain, on 13 April 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

Anti-infantry support weapon.

Watch these guaranteed replies.

*read comment*

[Ialti]

Vassago Rain, on 13 April 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

Anti-infantry support weapon.

Watch these guaranteed replies.

Guaranteed reply: No.


I do chuckle at the MG threads. They're cute.

[neviu]

not cute