378 replies to this topic

[cyberFluke]

A work in progress, still a few kinks to work out, but I reckon it's a sound idea. It's been around the houses a few times before, but I think a lot of the balance issues we've seen over the course of MW:O's beta to date have been magnified by... Well, I'll explain, it gets a bit notey at the end or "The Wall Of Text" ™ Would have been much worse.

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Not sure about anyone else, but I'm a little sick of being taken out by cheesy, stupid builds of mechs. From 6 PPC or 6 Large Laser Stalkers coring me out in two salvoes, to Jump sniping toss pieces that rely on the tactic that ensured an end to competitive play in the last official MechWarrior game winning by sheer volume of fire sent downrange.

I'm aware there are a large number of very loud... *ahem* misguided souls... that will attempt to maintain the status quo. Frankly, maintaining such a position is detrimental to MW:O and as such, the entire future of the MW franchise. I'm sure I don't have to point out that the last gasp of the franchise is right here. I'm asking you to not put your foot on the back of it's neck, just because it doesn't look like you remember it.

How it should work:
Like a modern shooter. As you move faster, your crosshair gets larger. This signifies and simulates inaccuracy due to movement. Any rounds/shots fired are randomly placed within the crosshair, the larger the crosshair, the more inaccurate the shot can be. The proposed system would place each fired weapon within the crosshair. **Example** (Purely hypothetical situation for descriptive value only) An AWS-9M; one ERPPC on the right arm, three large lasers, one on each torso. Mech standing still on solid ground with no heat aiming at enemy mech 500m away. Alpha Strike; all weapons fired at once, all strike the dead centre of the near pixel perfect crosshair aimed at the enemy CT. Heat jumps to 34%, crosshair enlarges to match. Alpha Strike again; ERPPC hits enemy left arm, LL 1 and 2 hit the right torso and the 3rd LL hits the head. Heat jumps to 62% (mech has cooled some heat while weaps recharged).

Now, should the next move be to chain fire, to allow more accurate fire due to cooling, gamble and alpha again? Take cover and cool down in order to better target the enemy?

Things that should enlarge the crosshair:

• Heat. Higher heat, larger crosshair.
  
• Velocity. Higher velocity, larger crosshair.
  
• Use of jump jets. While burning fuel, crosshair gets larger.
  
• Falling or sliding down a slope. In either scenario, the crosshair enlarges quickly, not instant, but very quickly.
  
• Taking kinetically inflicted damage, ie. an AC shell to the dome will ring your mech's bell a little. This would "pulse" the crosshair so rapid, regular hits would make accurate fire difficult at best.

Things this system would help deal with:

• Extreme Range Boating, to some extent, boating in general.
  
• Mechs dying faster than intended. Some explanation here; PGI doubled armour values to attempt to make fights last longer than 20 seconds. As we players are way more accurate than canon mechwarriors, we're drilling through sections of mechs without much wasted damage, lag/hitbox/bug issues aside.
  
• LRMs being unable to find their "support" niche. With the proper LRM fix in the works, this would add to their "fear factor" without them requiring "death from the sky" damage numbers.
  
• Poptarting. Would actually require a lot of skill with such a system. For example; one would have to time the shot to be right at the peak of the jump to have any accuracy. Indiscriminate, hyper accurate fire from in the air would be near impossible.

I want an honest, sensible discussion about this and how it could help move MW:O on from where it is, to where it should be. Please?

[Noob Weapons]

The only thing I'm seeing here is:

I want light mech removed from the playing field. Only assault mech and some heavies should be viable.

Light mech rely completely on speed to survive.. Your proposal makes them completely ineffective, or if not, required to use strange long range builds rather than hit and run builds that many light pilots enjoy playing.

So until I would even consider this approach, I want to know what light mechs get out of this system?

[Tetatae Squawkins]

Adding randomness = Skill?

[Vassago Rain]

Like the guy above says, adding randomness doesn't add skill. It takes skill away, which is what you want. You can't aim properly, so those who can should be punished.

[MadAndrew]

How about a Counterproposal For The Addition Of More Skill To Yourself ?

[MentalPatient]

I kind of wish the game involved more skill also. What I don't want, is for people with incredibly good aim to own the battlefield, that to me is not the kind of skill I want to encourage in this game. I think the problem with this game right now is, we are all too used to the same maps, with the same drop points, so we all know where we have to go on each map, leading to stand offs and no exciting surprise encounters which would make the game much more interesting. We need more and varied maps, with different scenarios and objectives, to keep us on our toes and not so rehearsed. Right now playing this game feels like flogging a dead horse, as each match usually plays out in the same way, with the same routes being taken generally and not much ingenuity.

There must be other things which will add a bit of flavour and help move us away from trying to get that slightest edge by poptarding and other stupid current tactics.

EDIT: I think once we get voice comms in game, with lances, we will get more tactical play, as we can stay in touch and updated while not having to be physically close together. It won't be a pure battle of attrition but will be more of a focus on smarter play such as ambushing, setting traps, etc.

Edited by MentalPatient, 14 April 2013 - 02:42 AM.

[CrashieJ]

the main thing that is hampering "skill" is the current format. people tend to boat weps to no end. we have to find a way to make mixing loadouts more appealing ad make Boats Builds a HUGE liability.

Maps and Heat/firing mechanics are the best way to handle it by making them feasible to Flank and out-maneuver. you want those PPCs? well you're going to have a really bad day with Large Pulse Laser/ER Large Laser Cicada scooting behind.

the actual mechanics in game with pretty much everything are stir-fried.

[von Pilsner]

cyberFluke, on 14 April 2013 - 02:21 AM, said:

Like a modern shooter. As you move faster, your crosshair gets larger. This signifies and simulates inaccuracy due to movement. Any rounds/shots fired are randomly placed within the crosshair, the larger the crosshair, the more inaccurate the shot can be.

Terrible idea for a vehicle shooter, adding randomness to penalize skill is NOT the way to level the playing field.

[Vassago Rain]

MentalPatient, on 14 April 2013 - 02:40 AM, said:

I kind of wish the game involved more skill also. What I don't want, is for people with incredibly good aim to own the battlefield, that to me is not the kind of skill I want to encourage in this game. I think the problem with this game right now is, we are all too used to the same maps, with the same drop points, so we all know where we have to go on each map, leading to stand offs and no exciting surprise encounters which would make the game much more interesting. We need more and varied maps, with different scenarios and objectives, to keep us on our toes and not so rehearsed. Right now playing this game feels like flogging a dead horse, as each match usually plays out in the same way, with the same routes being taken generally and not much ingenuity.

There must be other things which will add a bit of flavour and help move us away from trying to get that slightest edge by poptarding and other stupid current tactics.

EDIT: I think once we get voice comms in game, with lances, we will get more tactical play, as we can stay in touch and updated while not having to be physically close together. It won't be a pure battle of attrition but will be more of a focus on smarter play such as ambushing, setting traps, etc.

>I want more skill.
>I don't want people with good aim to own the battlefield.

You don't want skill, but a handicap to compensate for your own lack of skill. Man, I'm old and tired, too. I ain't got the reflexes for twitch shooting no mo', but you don't see me complain about this.

When I play crysis 3 against the kids, I use precision to kill them with the bow or precision rifle. In MWO, it used to be sneaky movement and brawling one-two punches.

[Cel]

Here's my proposal to add skill to the game:

Fix bugs.

[Urfin]

As it is now, the player fights predictable things like terrain, velocity vectors and return fire affecting the machine he's sitting in. You suggest we $%&@ up the machine even more than it is (firing delays, convergence), so its behaviour ****** ppl off even more.

This has nothing to do with skill, and is a prime example of the lazy design prevalent in todays games. NO.

[MadAndrew]

MentalPatient, on 14 April 2013 - 02:40 AM, said:

What I don't want, is for people with incredibly good aim to own the battlefield... I think the problem with this game right now is, we are all too used to the same maps, with the same drop points, so we all know where we have to go on each map, leading to stand offs and no exciting surprise encounters which would make the game much more interesting. We need more and varied maps, with different scenarios and objectives, to keep us on our toes and not so rehearsed. Right now playing this game feels like flogging a dead horse, as each match usually plays out in the same way, with the same routes being taken generally and not much ingenuity.

But isn't that what any FPS is about? Less QQ more pew pew. Got a bad aim? Try a brawling build, maneuver, use the terrain to your advantage, ambush them. The better you know the maps, the better you can use the terrain to your advantage. It is up to people like you to come up with innovative tactics and lead your team to victory. But meh, you sound like almost not having fun in game at all. Take a break maybe.

More maps, features, new fancy paid mechs with exteme hardpoint layouts - the more variables they introduce to the game, the harder it is to balance everything out. They should probably stop and get their **** straight, but who can when big money is involved.

gavilatius, on 14 April 2013 - 02:41 AM, said:

the main thing that is hampering "skill" is the current format. people tend to boat weps to no end. we have to find a way to make mixing loadouts more appealing ad make Boats Builds a HUGE liability.

What could possibly be the benefit of a mixed loadout on a heavy/assault when I have a trusted medium covering my back from lights? And not that PPCs can hit anything closer than 90m. Mixed loadouts are already quite useful in pugs when you need that kind of flexibility.

[MentalPatient]

Vassago Rain, on 14 April 2013 - 02:58 AM, said:

>I want more skill.
>I don't want people with good aim to own the battlefield.

You don't want skill, but a handicap to compensate for your own lack of skill. Man, I'm old and tired, too. I ain't got the reflexes for twitch shooting no mo', but you don't see me complain about this.

When I play crysis 3 against the kids, I use precision to kill them with the bow or precision rifle. In MWO, it used to be sneaky movement and brawling one-two punches.

I never said I want a handicap, what I said was I wanted more avenues to explore rather than aim based skill. Also, I consider myself above average in the aiming department, been a mouse and kb shooter since quake. If you don't agree that right now the game has tunnel vision then maybe you just lack imagination. I want more variety, variety in maps, scenarios, in the way things play out, in the way people approach a battle. It's all too worn and tired.

[Tahribator]

You actually take skill away from this game by making crosshair larger and shooting more random. No.

[Yokaiko]

You want planetside 2?

[Cyberassassin]

I agree with OP to some capacity.

The crosshairs should not be 100% dead-on for every scenario. I'm won't suggest any situations nor speculate on gameplay effects- that's for the Devs to figure out from forums and adjust appropriately.

OKay, couldn't help it. IMHO
If we apply some realistic mechanics, wouldn't a mech "shake" from large ballistic impulses or firing a JJ or just moving faster than a walk speed?

A solution to every problem:
Maybe the Devs could implement within the C3 trageting computer or other module equipment to counteract/reduce these effects.

[Yokaiko]

Cyberassassin, on 14 April 2013 - 03:25 AM, said:

A solution to every problem:
Maybe the Devs could implement within the C3 trageting computer or other module equipment to counteract/reduce these effects.

Too close to making sense.

The other cool effect could be that pulse lasers don't have recital spread. +2 to hit and all of that.

[Thecure]

What the man is saying is that he made a PPC stalker but he couldn't aim straight. Or he got up on that ridge, thinking he was god of war, fired two alphas, overheated and got cored. Now he proposes the devs messes everyones aim and while at it, destroy lights.

[DCLXVI]

it is a little silly being able to walk up a hill, set your crosshair on an enemy across the field, let go of the mouse and just keep pushing numbers and every shot lands exactly the same place lol. But I fear changing it we would only find out how big the gap is between skilled and casual players.

[Taemien]

The way to deal with boats isn't to nerf them, or add randomness to the game, but to counter them. All boats have glaring weaknesses that can be exploited. This is the reason I do not use them. I don't need to launch into a random game and then get hard countered because my arms got shot off or someone got within a minimum range or stayed at maximum range.

I wouldn't mind seeing more punishment to those who ride the heat levels such as MW3 did with the HUD scrambling and such. But not adding any randomness.