85 replies to this topic

[Rhent]

Seeing as the General forum is dead, lets talk about Mechs boating PPC's?

How about the PRO's and CON's of allowing 60 Alpha Strikes to certain Mechs (Stalker but not the but not Atlas) other Mechs?

[5th Fedcom Rat]

Since PGI has 6 PPC Stalker alphaed the general forum, clearly they approve of death star levels of destruction.

[Soulscour]

Don't forget 6PPC + dual coolshots! Say goodbye to your center torso! I prefer most other builds for PPC boating however. Maybe mix in some SRM or Streaks if they get close. The con? PPC is extremely hot and inefficient if they get under 100m. Even ERPPC are the least desireable to lasers and srms and ballistics. The pro? They usually don't get a chance to get close when facing a firing squad of PPC users. Of all the OP builds I do prefer it over streak cats, splat cats, dualac20builds, LRM boats, and ECM OPness. Please PGI, let tag work inside ECM bubble. . .

Edited by Soulscour, 23 April 2013 - 02:23 PM.

[Victor Morson]

I thought about a snide response but really, I'll just say that 6 PPC Stalkers are not very good. It's simply too hot to be effective and while it has high alpha damage, it has awful DPS overall. It's just a bad 'mech that can pull off luck shots so everyone fears it.

4 PPC Stalkers are pretty solid, though.

Soulscour, on 23 April 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

Don't forget 6PPC + dual coolshots! Say goodbye to your center torso! I prefer most other builds for PPC boating however. Maybe mix in some SRM or Streaks if they get close. The con? PPC is extremely hot and inefficient if they get under 100m. Even ERPPC are the least desireable to lasers and srms and ballistics. The pro? They usually don't get a chance to get close when facing a firing squad of PPC users.

Have you used coolshot? You can only carry one that isn't a joke. I don't even carry the basic Cool Shot because it uses before the 9 by 9.

Edited by Victor Morson, 23 April 2013 - 02:21 PM.

[Leiska]

6 PPC Stalkers are definitely not good. It's a classic rookie mistake of overloading on hot guns.

[Soulscour]

Victor Morson, on 23 April 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

Have you used coolshot? You can only carry one that isn't a joke. I don't even carry the basic Cool Shot because it uses before the 9 by 9.

coolshot 6 + coolshot 9 is dual IMO

[Hellwife]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 23 April 2013 - 02:12 PM, said:

Since PGI has 6 PPC Stalker alphaed the general forum, clearly they approve of death star levels of destruction.

The Government hasnt stopped me cheating on my taxes,obviously they must approve.

The logic is staggering .

Edited by Hellwife, 23 April 2013 - 02:24 PM.

[Victor Morson]

Soulscour, on 23 April 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

coolshot 6 + coolshot 9 is dual IMO

Coolshot 9 is trash and Coolshot 6 is barely a blip. Unless you're talking 9 by 9 it's of little consequence. Or the MC one I suppose, but really? Who would run that?

Hellwife, on 23 April 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

The Government hasnt stopped me cheating on my taxes,obviously they must approve.

The logic is staggering .

They view it as fine because it is fine.

If they never touched the balance again, you wouldn't see them in a month or two, as people learn to adapt to them. If you're a good pilot you can spread that PPC damage into non-vital areas (if not dodge it entirely) and then the Stalker is GG'ed.

To put this in perspective for you in a brawl with 8 'mechs one of your heaviest designs is good for exactly 3 shots before it entirely rolls over and lets everyone pop it, if it's using coolshot.

It only works in PUGs because very few people ever switch targets with any common sense in most pugs.

Edited by Victor Morson, 23 April 2013 - 02:59 PM.

[FrostCollar]

The problem is a combination of PPCs and mechs that can carry PPCs. Let's talk about PPC balance too.

And suddenly, this is a thread that could fit in the "mechs," or "loadout" subforums. I'm rather confused.

[Tennex]

its just ERPPC imo.

PPC mechs still have that short range weakness. just get a light mech in there and they are efffdddd

[Royalewithcheese]

1 Gauss + 2 ERPPC Cataphract > 4 PPC Staker > 6 PPC Stalker.

[Carrioncrows]

The ppc's are not the issue, the lack of heat effects is.

50% heat, should slow your mech and make your HUD flicker

75% heat, slow your mech by 20%, Hud issues

90% heat, slow your mech by 50%. zero HUD.

Maybe not that extreme but pretty close. There should be a reason to have tiered weapons rather than just everyone boating the big guns and riding the red line.

[Wintersdark]

Victor Morson, on 23 April 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

I thought about a snide response but really, I'll just say that 6 PPC Stalkers are not very good. It's simply too hot to be effective and while it has high alpha damage, it has awful DPS overall. It's just a bad 'mech that can pull off luck shots so everyone fears it.

4 PPC Stalkers are pretty solid, though.



Have you used coolshot? You can only carry one that isn't a joke. I don't even carry the basic Cool Shot because it uses before the 9 by 9.

This.

Carrying both in my experience is a disadvantage. There's a delay after you pop the Baby Coolshot before you can use the 9 by 9, and the Baby Coolshot does practically nothing.

I've found them to be far, far more effective if I only bring the 9 by 9 and whatever else in my other module slots.

[Oni Ralas]

Unshackle the LRM's, and the PPCboat herds become much, much thinner. I see far more 6LL stalkers than I do PPC boats though - still FOTM as far as I'm concerned.

I dunno, it just seem to be fun for me. You're in the largest slot-per-ton mech in the game with a ridiculous amount of firepower and it cost you no real skill to maintain it (nor acquire it if we're honest). Slapping in the biggest guns on the biggest platform just means you lack imagination. I don't blame people for it - the mechanics allow it in the current format - I just choose not to engage in such behavior. It's just boring. Perhaps when tonnage actually plays a role, and heat gets reviewed things may become diverse (and maybe next year, medium's will be useful again).

[Lord Psycho]

cool shot 18 is viable though..during the tournament...think about it.

[Victor Morson]

Lord Psycho, on 23 April 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

cool shot 18 is viable though..during the tournament...think about it.

Yes it is. Your point?

It's right where it should be. One time use (making sure you save it for when you actually need it), not a full sweep and it takes a module slot as well as gains effectiveness from heat sinks.

Right in that "Neat tactical option" level. Not the "laser ammo" that was MW4's coolant.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

I have to agree with OP.
Yesterday I played my 6 PPC Stalker for 2 games and I got 2 wins and 5 kills with over 350 dmg each...then I switched back to my brawler HGN bcuz it was like cheating .

[Soulscour]

Wintersdark, on 23 April 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

This.

Carrying both in my experience is a disadvantage. There's a delay after you pop the Baby Coolshot before you can use the 9 by 9, and the Baby Coolshot does practically nothing.

I've found them to be far, far more effective if I only bring the 9 by 9 and whatever else in my other module slots.

Coolshot 6 is about a 3 second difference in cooldown when using a 6 PPC build. It takes about 15 seconds to cool down from each shot. Let the readers decide whether or not that's worth it. For me, I'll take the damage advantage over pretty much any other current mod when running PPCs. If you're almost cooled down but not quite you pretty much have to take cover and give the enemy positional advantage if you do not use a coolshot.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

They are powerful, but not crazy powerful.
1. the generate a lot of heat, so an alpha leaves them vulnerable (i'd rather run 3 (or 2 ER) and take advantage of that high rate of fire)
2. boat usually prefer the standard PPC for heat reasons, leaving them vulnerable at long range and short range.
3. they are slow, get behind cover and they will spend 2 minutes walking to a new campground.

[Voidcrafter]

Victor Morson, on 23 April 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

I thought about a snide response but really, I'll just say that 6 PPC Stalkers are not very good. It's simply too hot to be effective and while it has high alpha damage, it has awful DPS overall. It's just a bad 'mech that can pull off luck shots so everyone fears it.

4 PPC Stalkers are pretty solid, though.



Have you used coolshot? You can only carry one that isn't a joke. I don't even carry the basic Cool Shot because it uses before the 9 by 9.

Have you ever tryied to spent tons of experience to upgrade the coolshots and their effitiency?
Cause you're quite wrong about what you say.
You can chain-use them with a bit more than 1 sec dellay and it cools insane amount of heat.
On the topic - I play mostly as a heavy mech with XL engine - it has always worked wonders for me.
Until the highlander madness hit.
Until people mounted (instert a number here between4 and 6)xPPC STALKERs or Highlanders with 3xPPC 1xGauss so they can counter all the poptards and dominate the two large maps with(imo) increased drop rate.
Nope.
It's not cause I don't know how to adapt.
The ammount of assault mechs and the ones amoung them with insane long range alpha build has incresed to the skies.
I just don't feel right about being one-shot from ~500+ meters in a torso part that's lightly yellow.
And I think I have quite goood situational awarness - with that in mind a WTF-moment for me is quite weird experience.
The worse part - the only optimised way to counter that stupid build is to build one for yourself...

I don't think PPCs are the issue - the abscence of restricting mechanic toward boating is.

Edited by Voidcrafter, 24 April 2013 - 01:53 AM.