122 replies to this topic

[Livewyr]

InRev, on 01 June 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

Exactly! So please for the love of god, don't take this to PMs. If a discussion is valid and well-constructed it should be seen for all on the public message board that we may learn from or possibly retool any ideas presented therein.

(Plus, I love seeing ::serious business:: players puff out their chests because they non-ironically think that the self-assigned tag "competitive gamer" makes them relevant, rather than causing the exact opposite effect along with a pinch of pity)

*chuckle* As silly as I think a PM (academic) discussion is, I have no problem addressing one. If he wants to continue the discussion in a PM, I won't deny him that.

I'm certainly not going to take the same argument I've put in this thread and multiple others (for all to see) and put it in a PM for him, simply because he asked me to.. even with the attempted pride challenge.

---EDIT--- No PM and he went offline; guess that is settled.

Edited by Livewyr, 01 June 2013 - 08:33 AM.

[Donnie Silveray]

One day before this whole PPC-geddon crap, I decided to try an interesting Centurion AL build, featuring MPLs and 2 ERPPCs with 2SSRM launchers. I launched into Alpine Peaks and won that match.

I then sold the centurion and the 9+ mil worth of C-Bills it was worth and bought something else.

Although I am for finding the right build to maximize your damage potential, I want to have fun more than anything else. Using those PPCs made the game WAY too easy. I just snipe at 1000+meters at EVERYTHING. It felt completely wrong and dull in my hands. No challenge or entertainment in shooting at pinpricks in the distance and murdering them with no penalty to my heat. Boating PPCs or other super high heat weapons needs some kind of balancing feature, they are just too good.

[Livewyr]

Donnie Silveray, on 01 June 2013 - 08:36 AM, said:

One day before this whole PPC-geddon crap, I decided to try an interesting Centurion AL build, featuring MPLs and 2 ERPPCs with 2SSRM launchers. I launched into Alpine Peaks and won that match.

I then sold the centurion and the 9+ mil worth of C-Bills it was worth and bought something else.

Although I am for finding the right build to maximize your damage potential, I want to have fun more than anything else. Using those PPCs made the game WAY too easy. I just snipe at 1000+meters at EVERYTHING. It felt completely wrong and dull in my hands. No challenge or entertainment in shooting at pinpricks in the distance and murdering them with no penalty to my heat. Boating PPCs or other super high heat weapons needs some kind of balancing feature, they are just too good.

This in a nutshell.

(Funny thing is, I did the same thing with a 9AL, except mine used SRM4s and regular med lasers)

[Fooooo]

Whilst I like the idea of dmg after overheating past 100% even if you didn't press override, I think that would screw newbies a little too much.

However thinking about it, you could adjust it so that whatever weapon group you are trying to fire will not fire if its going to take you past the auto-shutdown threshold of 100% (after which would be where you start to incur dmg ), but you can make it fire by pressing override.


So, say your at 75% heat, and you want to try and alpha 6ppcs.

What happens is it won't let you fire any of them. (if they were all in the same weapon group, a single ppc in a seperate group would probably fire still and possibly take you into shutdown)

However this player needs that alpha right here right now, so, he presses override and can now fire as many of his ppcs as possible and will suffer no shutdown, however major dmg and possible death will occur over 100% heat. So his 6ppc alpha is certain death, but possibly also for his enemy.

That way newbies dont kill themselves constantly firing and getting close to 100% then alphaing, as they would have to press override to do so......so there is somewhat a tactical use of override then i guess.

[Aslena]

I believe my sig explains how ridiculous ppc's are....

[Xeno Phalcon]

Watch this fascinating mating behavior of the Pando Livewyrus or "SilverBack Chestthumpers" as they are more commonly known, watch as one puffs out its chest to seem more appealing while one tries to display its worth by making offerings to the other. Truely amazing creatures! Shhh we don't want to spook them, lets just hope no predators such as the vaunted "Badmin" become attracted by these mating rituals.

But seriously, simmer down guys before you get in trouble! XD

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Pando, on 01 June 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

What part of thrown non explosive dumb weights are solutions for the average joe pugger?

Sorry I didn't get back to you right away but I had to get ready for work. Now with a little time to spare I'll gladly explain that something along the lines of those weights not only add a new meta to the game (a saboteur syle of gameplay) but minimally impact the rest of the game. This gives joe pugger some hope and purpose in lighter mechs that normally get obliterated trying to play the game in its current meta.

Now if those weights are enough to prevent a mech from jumping then obviously they are going to be a siginifcant risk to use taking up precious slots for a weapon that doesn't do any damage but greatly counters an otherwise abused aspect of the game. Checks and balances my friend. Right now tarting has too few counters and I'm just throwing out ideas which is highly more productive than attacking opinions.

Edited by lockwoodx, 01 June 2013 - 09:05 AM.

[Sam Slade]

got sick of grinding through the energy boat Highlander with large lasers and SRMs... put in two ERPPCs and two PPCs with max engine... win mode.

I stuck with PPCs through their dark early closed beta days and was rewarded with the Atlas o' Doom(curse that point of impact nerf!) but after seeing the way a quad PPC boat with good speed an jump jets eats everything... two ERPPCs should be pushing anything but an Awesome to the limits of sustainability.

Scale thier heat with the size of the mech mounting them

Edited by Sam Slade, 01 June 2013 - 09:16 AM.

[Livewyr]

Xeno Phalcon, on 01 June 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

Watch this fascinating mating behavior of the Pando Livewyrus or "SilverBack Chestthumpers" as they are more commonly known, watch as one puffs out its chest to seem more appealing while one tries to display its worth by making offerings to the other. Truely amazing creatures! Shhh we don't want to spook them, lets just hope no predators such as the vaunted "Badmin" become attracted by these mating rituals.

But seriously, simmer down guys before you get in trouble! XD

Hehe, cute.. but you're a half hour late. Don't necro it, it's freshly dead.

/irony

[Livewyr]

Fooooo, on 01 June 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

Whilst I like the idea of dmg after overheating past 100% even if you didn't press override, I think that would screw newbies a little too much.

However thinking about it, you could adjust it so that whatever weapon group you are trying to fire will not fire if its going to take you past the auto-shutdown threshold of 100% (after which would be where you start to incur dmg ), but you can make it fire by pressing override.


So, say your at 75% heat, and you want to try and alpha 6ppcs.

What happens is it won't let you fire any of them. (if they were all in the same weapon group, a single ppc in a seperate group would probably fire still and possibly take you into shutdown)

However this player needs that alpha right here right now, so, he presses override and can now fire as many of his ppcs as possible and will suffer no shutdown, however major dmg and possible death will occur over 100% heat. So his 6ppc alpha is certain death, but possibly also for his enemy.

That way newbies dont kill themselves constantly firing and getting close to 100% then alphaing, as they would have to press override to do so......so there is somewhat a tactical use of override then i guess.

Alternative idea?

During the first 10 matches, have warnings explaining exactly what is happening, with text on the side of the screen, or perhaps do that with the training missions. Something to make sure the new player is acutely aware what is going on and why.

(I'm weary of taking the thinking out of a thinking man's shooter, by making it newbie-proof...)
I approve of the learning curve/experience with assistance. (but not the learning cliff we started with.)

[El Bandito]

MWO needs a bloody Tutorial for sure. Hope it includes lessons on how not to blow yourself up unintentionally.

[Raso]

I think we need to lower the heat cap, increase heat dissipation under 50%~60% heat and make it so that firing more than 3 PPC or 2 ERPPC at a time puts you over that 50%~60% threshold. Past this threshold heat will decrease the rate at which it dissipates along an exponential scale. At this point your HUD will also flicker out as the heat starts to effect your electronics. Other effects could kick in at even higher heat levels like reduced acceleration speed, reduced weapon accuracy or even your engine stalling out when moving at top speed just to list a few ideas.

If we start from there and rework the heat for some other weapons then you'd be forced to mount other weapons to use while your heat is dissipating or risk a shut down (when shut down you should probably cool at your base level rather than the decreased dissipation rate). This would force PPC snipers to increase the time taken before shots, reduce the number of PPCs they boat but also encourage them to load up alternative weapons or risk being ineffective at dealing damage.

Ideally if this were implemented properly it would mean that loading up on weapons which are effective at multiple ranges or have various heat signatures would be more beneficial than loading up on nothing but a few PPCs and a ton of heatsinks.

We could go one step further. Some mechs could have a quirk that increase the threshold at which they will experience reduced heating efficiency. One mech off the top of my head that would be a perfect match for such a quirk would be several of the Awesome variants. Finally they could shine as the long range, direct fire support, PPC boats many wish that they were.

[WildeKarde]

Should we be thinking number of barrels as well. Am I right in thinking something like an RS only has a single barrel on their arms? Which means it should only shoot a single energy beam at a time for example.

Would that be something to limit some of the boating?

Also what about something like a reactor limit. If you are pushing the reactor at full capacity (full throttle, jumping and firing 3 PPC's all together for example) then it takes longer to recycle energy weapons. It could be a hidden value as bigger mechs need bigger reactors just for the basics

[Strum Wealh]

Jake Hendricks, on 01 June 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

Should we be thinking number of barrels as well. Am I right in thinking something like an RS only has a single barrel on their arms? Which means it should only shoot a single energy beam at a time for example.

Would that be something to limit some of the boating?

Also what about something like a reactor limit. If you are pushing the reactor at full capacity (full throttle, jumping and firing 3 PPC's all together for example) then it takes longer to recycle energy weapons. It could be a hidden value as bigger mechs need bigger reactors just for the basics

The issue with the "# of barrels" concept is that PGI will be reworking the 'Mechs so that the visuals reflect the actual armaments, so the number of barrels (and missile launch tubes) displayed on a 'Mech would ultimately be equal to the number of appripriate hardpoints filled.




The newer 'Mechs, like the Highlander and JagerMech already do this (as shown above), and PGI will be back-porting the capability to earlier 'Mechs like the Atlas and Centurion.
So, the notion of attempting to limit damage output by the current visible numbers of barrels or missile tubes, by itself, is not one that will be effective or relevant in the long term.

[MuKen]

Pando, on 01 June 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

You can't hold a candle to me intellectually or otherwise. I'll be available in PM's to further assert that fact.

If that were true, then you wouldn't be constantly bombarding him with attempts to move this into formats other than intellectual discourse before your peers. Stop trying to get him to grudge match you or PM you, and answer his points here on this forum where we can all see it. You come off as more the "coward" right now than he does.

Edited by MuKen, 01 June 2013 - 12:42 PM.

[Sephlock]

Suggestion: Just make AC/10s better.

[Raso]

Sephlock, on 01 June 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

Suggestion: Just make AC/10s better.

I use AC10s a lot on my Jager for the range. I really do like them but I also know they are an inferior weapon to others. What I gain in range I lose in ammo capacity, bullet speed and fire rate.

[Shakespeare]

True, but the SOUND they make! I've got a buddy who uses them primarily for how they feel and sound, DPS be-damned.

[Pando]

MuKen, on 01 June 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

If that were true, then you wouldn't be constantly bombarding him with attempts to move this into formats other than intellectual discourse before your peers. Stop trying to get him to grudge match you or PM you, and answer his points here on this forum where we can all see it. You come off as more the "coward" right now than he does.

The only reason I was going to move it to PM's is because I'm usually against blasting someone personally on forum threads, seeing it's against our terms of service. I clocked out and went home. I'll be back at work soon enough and I'll be able to respond to that "genius" named Livewyr. Prepare the popcorn.

[Shakespeare]

Must we do this?