50 replies to this topic

[Trauglodyte]

So, I just came out of a game in Frozen City. I took the cave and found an afk Jenner. I have 2 LRM5s on my Mando (lulz) with 2 tons of ammo. It took 340 missiles to core the Jenner (no artemis) and that doesn't count the 2-3 salvoes that someone else pumped in. At the end of the game, I registered 1 kill and 87 damage done. Doing the math, that is 0.26 damage per missile. There was no AMS, no buildings in the way, nothing to diminish the damage done. IF, and I'm being generous here, I somehow missed with say 20% of the missiles fired (not sure how that would happen but I'll do it anyway), that would mean that only 272 missiles of the 340 fired landed which means each one did 0.32 damage. I know that a lot of people have been rather displeased with what is going on but the game isn't even registering the 0.75 damage per missile that PGI implemented after the original Splashpocolypse hot fix. And with splash being reduced to, according to the last ATD39, something like 2cm to outright kill any semblance of splash, the damage is still awful. I knew something was up when I took 3 straight salvoes from a Stalker sporting 2 LRM15s and 2 LRM10s and was still sitting pretty with yellow armor.

[One Medic Army]

So the takeaway from this is that LRMs don't suck because of their damage, they suck because the hits aren't registering?

[Sephlock]

I've noticed this too- it is amazing how little damage you will do even when you are spamming the hell out of missiles for the entire match. It is vastly out of proportion to the amount of tonnage spent on ammo...

[Trauglodyte]

One Medic Army, on 02 June 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

So the takeaway from this is that LRMs don't suck because of their damage, they suck because the hits aren't registering?

Honestly, I can't tell what is going on. As I said, I was at the mouth of the cave (upper entrance) facing him with no buildings or obstructions inbetween. I dumped 340 missiles on him before he went down and a Stalker boat added in a couple salvoes too. I'm all for missiles being balanced but this is awful. I literally could have done more damage in the same amount of time with a Machine Gun.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

The only way my commando does damage is with an ERLLas. Either way, I'm hurting my team my piloting one.

[Livewyr]

That seems to concur with the data from a 4xLRM20 Stalker.. roughly .25 damage per missile.

Borked.

[Roland]

AMS will destroy pretty much all of your missiles from your two lrm5's.

That is why you did no damage.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Roland, on 02 June 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

AMS will destroy pretty much all of your missiles from your two lrm5's.

That is why you did no damage.

I've tried using 4 LRM5s on my Jager to distribute heat while providing a long range punch to conserve my LBX ammo. Doesn't even scratch the paint. Switching to LRM 20s and it's ok... I guess... if you spam everything at one target until you run dry. Moral of the story is, LRM ammo should be .5 tons to represent how minor the impact it does, while providing Mechs with a long range solution to wearing down armor.

[Victor Morson]

Commandos & LRMs. Two great things that go together like Peanut Butter & Jelly.*

* That expired in 1964.

[Ningyo]

I have made many posts with tons of data, Hits are registering (though spread could make a couple miss even on a stationary light since its tiny) they however almost always miss a fast moving target, and THEY DO NOT DO CORRECT DAMAGE. No matter how I test them the damage is just strange. So far in my stats the average damage per missile since last hotfix patch is between 0.7 and 0.8, they seem to do far less against lights, and possibly over 1 dmg per missile to assaults some times.

They really need to look into this I do not personally find LRMs to be trash right now (just a tad weak), but they have a lot of buggy stuff going on that makes them unreliable even when targeted well.

Bugs / weird stuff to be looked into making better:
Damage is not being dealt properly on hits (BIG problem, check formula for damage dealt on a hit if it does not say 0.9 then you know where the bug is lol)
Missiles do not properly target mechs using JJ (BIG problem, might be hard to fix)
Missiles almost never hit any mech going over 120 kph (Medium problem, probably hard to fix) <Ideally damage should be reduced by 20-80% based on enemy movement speed and size, right now its more of a 50-100%>
*When you are inside a enemy ECM bubble, but using TAG to target an enemy outside the bubble it still cannot be targeted (*might be problem) {someone pointed out the ECM would prevent you from sending targeting info to your missiles, I think this is a perfectly valid argument, NARC I think also does not allow this targeting though it sends homing data directly to the missiles in my understanding so it likely still should be fixed}
When an enemy mech shuts down targeting it lost instantly (Medium problem: it should have same delay as going behind cover)
When you shutdown your missiles should lose target faster (maybe not instant, but) (Medium Problem, likely easy to fix)
NARC should prevent loss of targeting when a mech shuts down, probably TAG too (Medium Problem, likely easy to fix)


Edit: added shutdown issue, added NARC targeting

Edited by Ningyo, 03 June 2013 - 08:26 AM.

[Eleshod]

Roland, on 02 June 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

AMS will destroy pretty much all of your missiles from your two lrm5's.

That is why you did no damage.

You DO know he said there was NO AMS involved right?


"There was no AMS, no buildings in the way, nothing to diminish the damage done."

Edited by Eleshod, 03 June 2013 - 12:06 AM.

[Kmieciu]

Streaks are currently the only missiles worth using. Sad but true.

Edited by Kmieciu, 03 June 2013 - 02:49 AM.

[stjobe]

Missile code update and HSR for missiles is supposedly coming tomorrow; let's see what that'll do to missiles in general and LRMs in particular - at this point it's really not worth spending the time to gather any data or try to draw conclusions as everything about missiles will change tomorrow.

[Aim64C]

One Medic Army, on 02 June 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

So the takeaway from this is that LRMs don't suck because of their damage, they suck because the hits aren't registering?

http://mwomercs.com/...lrm-chronicles/

Within that - there are particular instances that are of note... and I'm not sure if it's just that damage is still abysmal, of if hit detection is abysmal... or some hideously contrived version of both.

In theory - these should all be links to videos starting at a given time. We'll see if that holds...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&[color="#0066cc"]v=L2pfOU1zJg4[/color]#t=150s

(That one should start at 2:30)

http://www.youtube.c...7dQqTbP0#t=130s

(That one should start at 2:10)

http://www.youtube.c...oemOPUUQ#t=195s

(That one should start at 3:15)

http://www.youtube.c...ywxknx9g#t=272s

(That one should start at 4:32 ... this one example is interesting - because it's one of those times where you can real-world test against a stationary target...)

There are others - but those tend to offer some of the better instances of "Uh... where's the kaboom? There's supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom!"

[AnnoyingCat]

My atlas is here to give you a bro fist
Commando with lrms, what a sight

Edited by AnnoyingCat, 03 June 2013 - 03:40 AM.

[Roland]

Eleshod, on 03 June 2013 - 12:05 AM, said:

You DO know he said there was NO AMS involved right?


"There was no AMS, no buildings in the way, nothing to diminish the damage done."

I don't think he really is capable of knowing whether or not the enemy had AMS.

I'm pretty sure that my explanation is the correct one... that AMS shot down his missiles.

[Satan n stuff]

Roland, on 03 June 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

I don't think he really is capable of knowing whether or not the enemy had AMS.

I'm pretty sure that my explanation is the correct one... that AMS shot down his missiles.

I suppose you've never seen an AMS fire? It's rather obvious when the enemy has one.

[Appogee]

Why do you want or expect a Commando with 2xLRM5s to achieve anything much at all vs a static Jenner?

I don't understand the premise for this experiment. It's like researching how many hammer blows are needed to make a reverse-threaded wood screw penetrate steel plate.

Edited by Appogee, 03 June 2013 - 05:05 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

One Medic Army, on 02 June 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

So the takeaway from this is that LRMs don't suck because of their damage, they suck because the hits aren't registering?

I don't know if anyone actually reads my posts, but I've been saying since the hotfix LRM's miss A LOT.

I've tweeted Paul twice regarding this.

They used to follow horizontally when you fired on a moving mech. So you'd see leg/rear armor hits.

Now when they get to the end of their flight path they come straight down. And if a target is moving (even Assaults) it looks like half the missiles impact the ground.

It's nearly impossible to hit a light mech. I launched about 10 ALRM 15 x 3 Salvos into a Jenner in Line of Sight and could not kill him.

There are major problems with LRM's, beyond the damage.

Also the flight path is not smooth, it's very jagged and the missiles jump all over the place instead of changing direction in a normal sense.

Roland, on 03 June 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

I don't think he really is capable of knowing whether or not the enemy had AMS.

I'm pretty sure that my explanation is the correct one... that AMS shot down his missiles.

Yeah it's very easy to see AMS now a days, it's very apparent.

Aim64C, on 03 June 2013 - 03:39 AM, said:

http://www.youtube.c...oemOPUUQ#t=195s

(That one should start at 3:15)

There are others - but those tend to offer some of the better instances of "Uh... where's the kaboom? There's supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom!"

The 3:15 video is exactly what I'm seeing.

How can anyone say that's working properly? He has LOS and is just spamming LRM's at a light mech and doing nothing.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 03 June 2013 - 05:10 AM.

[Brkojle]

Kmieciu, on 03 June 2013 - 02:49 AM, said:

Streaks are currently the only missiles worth using. Sad but true.

probably but only if target dosn't have AMS. AMS can destroy up to 80% of streaks from my StreakCat (6xStreak)